1 00:00:24,849 --> 00:00:09,110 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:32,450 --> 00:00:28,910 but to set the scene Richard Saunders is 3 00:00:35,030 --> 00:00:32,460 naked in a room with 50 or 60 hundred 4 00:00:37,970 --> 00:00:35,040 people looking at it Richard's voice 5 00:00:44,660 --> 00:00:37,980 rises up and says welcome to the skeptic 6 00:00:51,049 --> 00:00:44,670 zone episode number 188 coming to you 7 00:00:57,380 --> 00:00:51,059 live from skippy camp in sydney what an 8 00:00:59,119 --> 00:00:57,390 enthusiastic crowd Maynard thanks for 9 00:01:01,430 --> 00:00:59,129 rehearsing with this beforehand Richard 10 00:01:02,420 --> 00:01:01,440 um well today on the skeptic zone main 11 00:01:04,310 --> 00:01:02,430 are we're going to be interviewing 12 00:01:08,630 --> 00:01:04,320 Michael Marshall from the Merseyside 13 00:01:09,890 --> 00:01:08,640 skeptics Joel Pitman the interview I 14 00:01:11,390 --> 00:01:09,900 haven't done yet yes you're the 15 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:11,400 surprised face i'll be talking to in a 16 00:01:15,590 --> 00:01:14,130 moment and all sorts of things that is 17 00:01:16,820 --> 00:01:15,600 great to be here at skeptic am Sydney 18 00:01:18,380 --> 00:01:16,830 Maynard we're not going to muck around 19 00:01:19,910 --> 00:01:18,390 we're going to get straight into our 20 00:01:22,249 --> 00:01:19,920 first interview of Michael Marshall then 21 00:01:44,510 --> 00:01:22,259 it's back to skeptic amp any astrologers 22 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:47,370 joining me now via the miracle of the 23 00:01:51,990 --> 00:01:49,930 internet or the scientific wonder that 24 00:01:53,730 --> 00:01:52,000 is the internet it's Michael Marshall 25 00:01:58,920 --> 00:01:53,740 all the way from Merseyside hello 26 00:02:01,080 --> 00:01:58,930 Michael hi Richard now we met up for the 27 00:02:03,030 --> 00:02:01,090 first time relatively recently of course 28 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:03,040 at QED in Manchester and what a 29 00:02:08,190 --> 00:02:05,290 fantastic time that was I must thank you 30 00:02:10,830 --> 00:02:08,200 for being my guinea pig live on stage 31 00:02:14,550 --> 00:02:10,840 where I was doing all the balance test 32 00:02:17,430 --> 00:02:14,560 from the famous power band and others do 33 00:02:20,430 --> 00:02:17,440 the same routine tell me more about the 34 00:02:23,370 --> 00:02:20,440 fallout from QED I mean it was a 35 00:02:25,170 --> 00:02:23,380 fantastic experience to be there yeah I 36 00:02:27,060 --> 00:02:25,180 mean it was a huge amount of fun and the 37 00:02:28,920 --> 00:02:27,070 thing that really kind of got really 38 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:28,930 interested and excites us is just how 39 00:02:32,220 --> 00:02:30,610 much people talked about it on Twitter 40 00:02:33,870 --> 00:02:32,230 afterwards and you everyone came away 41 00:02:37,020 --> 00:02:33,880 with I think they came away with an idea 42 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:37,030 that it was their conference you know 43 00:02:40,009 --> 00:02:38,530 and that's kind of what we set up to do 44 00:02:42,810 --> 00:02:40,019 in the first place was this is kind of a 45 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:42,820 weekend where the speakers are there to 46 00:02:46,259 --> 00:02:44,650 entertain the crowd and it's all about 47 00:02:48,390 --> 00:02:46,269 the audience you're there and about the 48 00:02:50,759 --> 00:02:48,400 people who all have these like really 49 00:02:51,870 --> 00:02:50,769 cool stories you know but just you know 50 00:02:54,210 --> 00:02:51,880 it's like when you have a skeptics 51 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:54,220 conference everybody there has something 52 00:02:57,990 --> 00:02:55,810 interesting going on or some testing to 53 00:02:59,880 --> 00:02:58,000 see so it's really cool to have everyone 54 00:03:01,710 --> 00:02:59,890 there and sharing our stories and kind 55 00:03:04,410 --> 00:03:01,720 of feeling like like so off and it can 56 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:04,420 feel like it's like you're alone and 57 00:03:08,550 --> 00:03:06,250 you're out there you know doing your own 58 00:03:10,050 --> 00:03:08,560 thing or in small groups so to know that 59 00:03:11,729 --> 00:03:10,060 there are hundreds of people here and 60 00:03:14,070 --> 00:03:11,739 you know obviously America you a 61 00:03:15,780 --> 00:03:14,080 Australia thousands of people get 62 00:03:16,890 --> 00:03:15,790 together these kind of things so yeah it 63 00:03:18,660 --> 00:03:16,900 was a huge amount of fun really but I 64 00:03:19,740 --> 00:03:18,670 think the problem is it and you've 65 00:03:20,910 --> 00:03:19,750 probably been through this yourself it 66 00:03:23,009 --> 00:03:20,920 kind of leaves you a little bit of 67 00:03:25,259 --> 00:03:23,019 blasted out for us for a while 68 00:03:27,090 --> 00:03:25,269 afterwards of you you try to G up the 69 00:03:29,370 --> 00:03:27,100 the energy to get back into doing some 70 00:03:31,110 --> 00:03:29,380 actual activism and get your hands down 71 00:03:33,270 --> 00:03:31,120 laws and going to mind/body wallet 72 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:33,280 festivals and doing all that kind of 73 00:03:36,930 --> 00:03:35,410 thing and yeah it's taken a while to get 74 00:03:38,850 --> 00:03:36,940 back into that but I'm I'm finally 75 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:38,860 starting to get my activist head back on 76 00:03:43,050 --> 00:03:40,810 and start to get up to some man to some 77 00:03:44,699 --> 00:03:43,060 real mischeif now talking about of 78 00:03:45,370 --> 00:03:44,709 course getting your hands dirty and I 79 00:03:49,300 --> 00:03:45,380 really 80 00:03:50,770 --> 00:03:49,310 get their hands dirty which means not 81 00:03:54,940 --> 00:03:50,780 just sitting back and reading reports 82 00:03:57,100 --> 00:03:54,950 and blogging about things and resting on 83 00:03:59,140 --> 00:03:57,110 their laurels so to speak are you really 84 00:04:01,960 --> 00:03:59,150 do get your hands dirty and you go out 85 00:04:04,210 --> 00:04:01,970 and you investigate and you recently I 86 00:04:07,470 --> 00:04:04,220 understand have been visiting various 87 00:04:10,810 --> 00:04:07,480 people who claim to talk with the dead 88 00:04:12,370 --> 00:04:10,820 yeah i went to a spiritualist church 89 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:12,380 when was it just a couple weeks ago 90 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:15,290 actually cuz i I'm a huge believer not a 91 00:04:18,220 --> 00:04:17,090 huge believer I won't finish that 92 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:18,230 sentence there because I'll be 93 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:20,090 immediately kicked off the skeptic zone 94 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:23,810 I'm a huge believer in exposing yourself 95 00:04:28,390 --> 00:04:26,210 to to counter arguments and exposing 96 00:04:29,980 --> 00:04:28,400 yourself to the scenarios that we 97 00:04:32,770 --> 00:04:29,990 criticize you know because it's it's 98 00:04:34,690 --> 00:04:32,780 very easy and just say nobody can talk 99 00:04:35,950 --> 00:04:34,700 to dead and you know all this kind of 100 00:04:37,990 --> 00:04:35,960 psychic stuff is crap I mean it's very 101 00:04:40,300 --> 00:04:38,000 easy because it's true so that makes it 102 00:04:42,610 --> 00:04:40,310 really easy yes it's really interesting 103 00:04:44,410 --> 00:04:42,620 to see a big sort of celebrity psychic 104 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:44,420 like selling Morgan you're doing her 105 00:04:48,700 --> 00:04:47,210 thing for her 30 pounds of fifty dollars 106 00:04:49,660 --> 00:04:48,710 or whatever it costs but I was really 107 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:49,670 interested see what the difference 108 00:04:54,370 --> 00:04:52,130 between that and the spiritualist 109 00:04:56,230 --> 00:04:54,380 churches which it will charge you know 110 00:04:58,840 --> 00:04:56,240 one pound one pound fifty just enough to 111 00:05:01,150 --> 00:04:58,850 cover the the room rental to see what 112 00:05:03,550 --> 00:05:01,160 the show how much of a difference sure 113 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:03,560 you get I guess what was really 114 00:05:07,330 --> 00:05:05,930 remarkable I for was when I went to see 115 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:07,340 this purchase sure she was about 50 I 116 00:05:12,010 --> 00:05:08,810 saw people in the audience they cost me 117 00:05:13,780 --> 00:05:12,020 very little to get in and be sure that 118 00:05:15,670 --> 00:05:13,790 you've got was almost indistinguishable 119 00:05:18,310 --> 00:05:15,680 from the kind of show that sally morgan 120 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:18,320 or Sylvia Browne or you know John Edward 121 00:05:22,690 --> 00:05:20,570 all these pods your power would appear 122 00:05:23,590 --> 00:05:22,700 we charge you 30 pounds for something 123 00:05:26,410 --> 00:05:23,600 like that and it's almost 124 00:05:28,750 --> 00:05:26,420 indistinguishable even down to what I 125 00:05:30,550 --> 00:05:28,760 perceive their to be hot reading going 126 00:05:32,860 --> 00:05:30,560 on i mean there's a it's hard to say for 127 00:05:35,380 --> 00:05:32,870 certain whether the psychic of seeing is 128 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:35,390 is genuine here is called reading knows 129 00:05:38,590 --> 00:05:36,890 they're called reading off his hot 130 00:05:39,700 --> 00:05:38,600 reading but there was a moment in a 131 00:05:40,780 --> 00:05:39,710 spiritualist church where they're 132 00:05:42,280 --> 00:05:40,790 claiming your this is their religion 133 00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:42,290 this is evidence that there's life after 134 00:05:46,330 --> 00:05:43,910 death this is proof that god is out 135 00:05:49,180 --> 00:05:46,340 there and and God communicates with us 136 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:49,190 and things I saw this woman take out a 137 00:05:54,100 --> 00:05:51,770 tissue to mop her brow and to wipe a 138 00:05:56,500 --> 00:05:54,110 mouthwash you talking and not even 139 00:05:58,420 --> 00:05:56,510 casually so yeah not even casually not 140 00:05:59,080 --> 00:05:58,430 even serve tisha Slee open the tissue up 141 00:06:01,360 --> 00:05:59,090 and stare 142 00:06:02,980 --> 00:06:01,370 at it for a good second or two and close 143 00:06:04,810 --> 00:06:02,990 it back up and put it away and she did 144 00:06:07,090 --> 00:06:04,820 this a couple times and she was stealing 145 00:06:10,090 --> 00:06:07,100 a guns you know this it was it was the 146 00:06:12,100 --> 00:06:10,100 most obvious stealing of a gland that 147 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:12,110 I've ever seen your even a third great 148 00:06:15,850 --> 00:06:14,570 magician you know doing party tricks in 149 00:06:18,159 --> 00:06:15,860 front of kids would be embarrassed about 150 00:06:21,250 --> 00:06:18,169 how obvious a trick she was pulling and 151 00:06:23,469 --> 00:06:21,260 of course people were laughing it up and 152 00:06:24,850 --> 00:06:23,479 you know she was seeing an eye she said 153 00:06:26,620 --> 00:06:24,860 a couple of times I couldn't have given 154 00:06:28,750 --> 00:06:26,630 you any more evidence than that could I 155 00:06:30,850 --> 00:06:28,760 and I thought well yeah I mean you could 156 00:06:33,430 --> 00:06:30,860 have given me something you know it is 157 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:33,440 she opened remarkably and it's just what 158 00:06:36,790 --> 00:06:34,610 you get with these psychic shows you 159 00:06:40,210 --> 00:06:36,800 know she opened remarkably with um now 160 00:06:42,610 --> 00:06:40,220 i'm getting a man and he's tall i get 161 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:42,620 that he's a tall man like five foot ten 162 00:06:47,980 --> 00:06:45,290 or more which is what average house 163 00:06:50,529 --> 00:06:47,990 pretty much five attended it's not it's 164 00:06:52,029 --> 00:06:50,539 not remarkably told i said and i want to 165 00:06:53,500 --> 00:06:52,039 say there's not a thing on him i would 166 00:06:57,159 --> 00:06:53,510 say he's all skin and bones is not a 167 00:06:59,830 --> 00:06:57,169 thing on him but he's very muscular so 168 00:07:02,409 --> 00:06:59,840 he have a muscular skinny average hiked 169 00:07:04,540 --> 00:07:02,419 all going in both cases she's hit the 170 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:04,550 middle and gone up basically yeah so 171 00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:06,289 he's I the skinny on muscular he we know 172 00:07:09,670 --> 00:07:07,850 he's not fat and he's not sure it's 173 00:07:10,719 --> 00:07:09,680 interesting what percentage it's 174 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:10,729 interesting you should use the 175 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:12,410 expression and I'm sure that they did in 176 00:07:17,620 --> 00:07:15,770 the show I want to say now in my 177 00:07:19,659 --> 00:07:17,630 experience a lot of them will say that 178 00:07:21,909 --> 00:07:19,669 during readings yeah you have to say I 179 00:07:25,210 --> 00:07:21,919 would or they the other one is they're 180 00:07:26,529 --> 00:07:25,220 telling me mmm they're telling me yet 181 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:26,539 blah blah blah blah it's interesting 182 00:07:31,510 --> 00:07:28,490 that it's it seems to be the same on 183 00:07:33,909 --> 00:07:31,520 both sides of the world yeah yeah and 184 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:33,919 what I think I think the semantics of it 185 00:07:37,450 --> 00:07:36,050 and the linguistics involved is really 186 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:37,460 really fascinating is it's really good 187 00:07:40,870 --> 00:07:39,530 it seems casual and seems off hand but 188 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:40,880 it's quite measured I think so she said 189 00:07:45,790 --> 00:07:43,610 a couple of times um you get quite a lot 190 00:07:47,770 --> 00:07:45,800 why am I getting blah blah blah you know 191 00:07:49,930 --> 00:07:47,780 why am i why am I getting a black and 192 00:07:51,969 --> 00:07:49,940 white pants I know you remember postman 193 00:07:54,580 --> 00:07:51,979 pat from the kid I'm not sure um but 194 00:07:56,830 --> 00:07:54,590 yeah and it's because if she said I'm 195 00:07:58,719 --> 00:07:56,840 seeing a dead black and white cat that 196 00:08:02,080 --> 00:07:58,729 very much cemented obviously both widely 197 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:02,090 the beautiful one she pulled off was I 198 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:06,050 want to give you X so I want to give you 199 00:08:12,239 --> 00:08:09,770 a doll on a shelf what you want to give 200 00:08:13,679 --> 00:08:12,249 me that have you got it with you or is 201 00:08:15,479 --> 00:08:13,689 is this a dull someone used to own is 202 00:08:16,979 --> 00:08:15,489 inviscid of I used to own why on the 203 00:08:18,869 --> 00:08:16,989 doll where am I going with this well she 204 00:08:20,729 --> 00:08:18,879 didn't need to clarify the tenses and 205 00:08:22,319 --> 00:08:20,739 put it into any context because you just 206 00:08:25,949 --> 00:08:22,329 may be that she wants a flawed that one 207 00:08:27,719 --> 00:08:25,959 out there as you please yeah it's it's 208 00:08:30,329 --> 00:08:27,729 harrowing in some ways to see because 209 00:08:31,919 --> 00:08:30,339 there are people who are in tears the 210 00:08:33,629 --> 00:08:31,929 moment the conversation starts the 211 00:08:35,639 --> 00:08:33,639 moment the cyclic turns to you she 212 00:08:37,709 --> 00:08:35,649 turned to one girl and said I want to go 213 00:08:39,719 --> 00:08:37,719 to this girl here with a butterfly like 214 00:08:41,339 --> 00:08:39,729 a clip in her hair a bull and a hair 215 00:08:43,199 --> 00:08:41,349 that looks like a butterfly and the girl 216 00:08:44,670 --> 00:08:43,209 immediately started crying and said oh 217 00:08:45,990 --> 00:08:44,680 my great grandmother gave me this is 218 00:08:47,670 --> 00:08:46,000 shed that she'd always be with me she 219 00:08:49,049 --> 00:08:47,680 always up till me and this girl is 220 00:08:50,579 --> 00:08:49,059 telling the psychic everything the 221 00:08:52,829 --> 00:08:50,589 psychic just needs to repeat back to her 222 00:08:57,900 --> 00:08:52,839 over the next 40 seconds to see my 223 00:08:59,670 --> 00:08:57,910 psychic it's yeah it yes yes I know how 224 00:09:01,670 --> 00:08:59,680 frustrating it can be when you know the 225 00:09:06,869 --> 00:09:01,680 truth and you know the psychology are 226 00:09:08,490 --> 00:09:06,879 and others don't and they can't see 227 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:08,500 what's going on in these things come 228 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:09,970 with experience and learning you know 229 00:09:15,809 --> 00:09:13,569 that I've spent many years learning this 230 00:09:17,490 --> 00:09:15,819 and I concede in action but yes I can 231 00:09:19,860 --> 00:09:17,500 understand when other people can't see 232 00:09:22,049 --> 00:09:19,870 the psychology of the situation what's 233 00:09:24,269 --> 00:09:22,059 going on they look at you like you're 234 00:09:26,189 --> 00:09:24,279 the devil when you dare criticize yeah 235 00:09:27,869 --> 00:09:26,199 they didn't and what I think is really 236 00:09:29,759 --> 00:09:27,879 interesting that mean it was you know a 237 00:09:33,569 --> 00:09:29,769 couple of things I think interesting one 238 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:33,579 is how beautiful an art form called 239 00:09:38,790 --> 00:09:36,730 reading can be if you take out be 0 if 240 00:09:40,710 --> 00:09:38,800 you if you set aside the ugliness of 241 00:09:42,299 --> 00:09:40,720 your pretending to talk to their dead 242 00:09:44,340 --> 00:09:42,309 grandma if you take that aside you know 243 00:09:48,210 --> 00:09:44,350 you're at your your bilking them in this 244 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:48,220 case not for money but I know for 245 00:09:51,929 --> 00:09:50,290 certain about the people who go to the 246 00:09:54,299 --> 00:09:51,939 Spiritist Churchill i went to then go 247 00:09:56,639 --> 00:09:54,309 and see psychic shores for you know 25 248 00:09:58,110 --> 00:09:56,649 30 pounds whatever and in some ways I'd 249 00:10:00,480 --> 00:09:58,120 be fairly confident that there is a 250 00:10:02,519 --> 00:10:00,490 degree of well this psychic must be real 251 00:10:03,990 --> 00:10:02,529 because my religion says I can talk and 252 00:10:05,610 --> 00:10:04,000 dead and my religion says that at the 253 00:10:07,740 --> 00:10:05,620 church that I go to every week so that 254 00:10:09,689 --> 00:10:07,750 so the sturgis church harm isn't in 255 00:10:11,549 --> 00:10:09,699 taking their money there and then but 256 00:10:13,499 --> 00:10:11,559 it's supporting a culture that does take 257 00:10:14,970 --> 00:10:13,509 their money i genuinely think but once 258 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:14,980 you take that whole thing out that 259 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:17,170 talking to the dead and the exploitation 260 00:10:22,860 --> 00:10:20,850 and just watching somebody work a room 261 00:10:24,749 --> 00:10:22,870 even if they're not very good at it and 262 00:10:25,580 --> 00:10:24,759 seeing a room go with it is just so 263 00:10:27,530 --> 00:10:25,590 wonderful 264 00:10:30,350 --> 00:10:27,540 see especially if the very skilled 265 00:10:34,250 --> 00:10:30,360 called reader at saving things of things 266 00:10:35,390 --> 00:10:34,260 that a piece of reading their piece of 267 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:35,400 intuition that they're trying to put 268 00:10:40,580 --> 00:10:37,530 across there that feels badly and they 269 00:10:42,830 --> 00:10:40,590 recover it you know yes that shows the 270 00:10:45,020 --> 00:10:42,840 real skill of a cold reader and of 271 00:10:47,660 --> 00:10:45,030 course I've seen many a cold reader who 272 00:10:50,060 --> 00:10:47,670 has never reached that level hmm partly 273 00:10:52,250 --> 00:10:50,070 because they don't have to oh yeah yeah 274 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:52,260 absolutely you know they can be rubbish 275 00:10:57,560 --> 00:10:54,450 and I've seen cold readers who are 276 00:11:00,800 --> 00:10:57,570 simply rubbish who I would not pass 277 00:11:02,930 --> 00:11:00,810 kindergarten cold reading tests but to 278 00:11:04,610 --> 00:11:02,940 the people going along to the to the 279 00:11:06,650 --> 00:11:04,620 show or the the church or whatever the 280 00:11:08,630 --> 00:11:06,660 case may be this is all so fascinating 281 00:11:12,680 --> 00:11:08,640 psychology it doesn't matter no no 282 00:11:13,370 --> 00:11:12,690 actually and the only thing that well 283 00:11:15,980 --> 00:11:13,380 the other thing I found really 284 00:11:18,590 --> 00:11:15,990 fascinating is when you see the tricks 285 00:11:20,990 --> 00:11:18,600 in action and you see the move you know 286 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:21,000 if you've just seen her glance at the 287 00:11:25,580 --> 00:11:23,490 tissue and see things all you've just 288 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:25,590 you know she's just done a reading for 289 00:11:31,070 --> 00:11:28,770 for this lady who time after time yes 290 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:31,080 correct yes correct absolutely perfect 291 00:11:34,580 --> 00:11:33,210 you know could not be anything other 292 00:11:36,470 --> 00:11:34,590 than a psychic powers she was so 293 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:36,480 accurate and then the lady's husband 294 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:38,730 pipes up and says well she should know 295 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:41,370 my the president of the church is my 296 00:11:47,500 --> 00:11:44,370 sister so the psychic is doing a reading 297 00:11:49,850 --> 00:11:47,510 for the president's like sister-in-law 298 00:11:51,470 --> 00:11:49,860 and you can see immediately about the 299 00:11:54,260 --> 00:11:51,480 present like the guy who sing it's my 300 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:54,270 sister believes every word this psychic 301 00:11:56,690 --> 00:11:55,650 sing and believes its psychic I've seen 302 00:11:58,670 --> 00:11:56,700 the guy in a couple of other readings 303 00:12:00,260 --> 00:11:58,680 I've been to at spirituous meetings all 304 00:12:01,940 --> 00:12:00,270 over Oliver region I've seen him before 305 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:01,950 he believes it he sees nothing wrong 306 00:12:05,300 --> 00:12:03,930 with this you know even the president I 307 00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:05,310 would bet would see nothing wrong with 308 00:12:08,930 --> 00:12:06,720 this you know this psychic was doing two 309 00:12:10,700 --> 00:12:08,940 shows a day her for that day she'd won 310 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:10,710 an afternoon while the evening presume 311 00:12:13,370 --> 00:12:11,730 is she's going to be hanging around the 312 00:12:14,660 --> 00:12:13,380 president after if it comes up in 313 00:12:16,220 --> 00:12:14,670 conversation that my brother is going to 314 00:12:17,810 --> 00:12:16,230 be there tonight you could see how a 315 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:17,820 skilled psychic would use that as a 316 00:12:21,260 --> 00:12:19,410 great opportunity for information 317 00:12:24,230 --> 00:12:21,270 leakage you know together this kind of 318 00:12:26,420 --> 00:12:24,240 stuff out spew it back up on stage and 319 00:12:27,530 --> 00:12:26,430 the president thinks nothing of the 320 00:12:29,450 --> 00:12:27,540 information gathering because it's just 321 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:29,460 a conversational the team kicks the guy 322 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:30,570 in the audience thinks nothing of it 323 00:12:33,890 --> 00:12:32,250 because he's a true believer but the 324 00:12:36,890 --> 00:12:33,900 woman goes away of thinking my word 325 00:12:39,110 --> 00:12:36,900 these people can talk to the dead yeah 326 00:12:42,019 --> 00:12:39,120 and this is why it is so important that 327 00:12:43,340 --> 00:12:42,029 if you're very and I'm speaking to the 328 00:12:45,170 --> 00:12:43,350 listeners now if you really are 329 00:12:47,450 --> 00:12:45,180 interested in all this sort of stuff and 330 00:12:48,890 --> 00:12:47,460 you're interested in how these people 331 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:48,900 seem to talk with the dead well if I 332 00:12:53,090 --> 00:12:51,450 haven't say get out there go see a show 333 00:12:54,620 --> 00:12:53,100 even if it you have to part with a bit 334 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:54,630 of money well it's well worth it for 335 00:12:59,210 --> 00:12:56,370 educational purposes they belong to the 336 00:13:02,269 --> 00:12:59,220 local talking to the dead type church 337 00:13:03,769 --> 00:13:02,279 and soak it in what should again and 338 00:13:05,690 --> 00:13:03,779 again and again or you can see it online 339 00:13:07,790 --> 00:13:05,700 I guess but it's important that you see 340 00:13:09,290 --> 00:13:07,800 this yeah I think I think seen online is 341 00:13:10,670 --> 00:13:09,300 one thing but seeing in person is a 342 00:13:12,829 --> 00:13:10,680 totally diff experience be in the middle 343 00:13:14,269 --> 00:13:12,839 of it and I think when you say I soak it 344 00:13:18,019 --> 00:13:14,279 in I think it's absolutely key because 345 00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:18,029 one thing I i mentioned this to Egyptian 346 00:13:21,980 --> 00:13:19,440 Paul's anyway I have to be talking about 347 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:21,990 the the my experiences persist church to 348 00:13:25,610 --> 00:13:23,730 the other day and he said you know did 349 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:25,620 you confront anybody did you speak to 350 00:13:30,050 --> 00:13:27,930 anybody no say no I just wanted to be 351 00:13:32,030 --> 00:13:30,060 there i mean it's if their religion i'm 352 00:13:33,470 --> 00:13:32,040 going to be respectful enough to be 353 00:13:34,820 --> 00:13:33,480 silent you know i'm not i don't respect 354 00:13:36,470 --> 00:13:34,830 their beliefs i don't believe their 355 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:36,480 beliefs but i'm not going to disrupt 356 00:13:40,730 --> 00:13:38,970 what they feel is a religious occasion 357 00:13:42,290 --> 00:13:40,740 no more than i'm gonna wander to a 358 00:13:44,390 --> 00:13:42,300 mosque yelling it's all bollocks you 359 00:13:46,850 --> 00:13:44,400 know what no more than i'm gonna run 360 00:13:48,860 --> 00:13:46,860 through church you know decrying the the 361 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:48,870 sins of catholic priests i mean what 362 00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:50,730 should be done it probably it's not the 363 00:13:53,570 --> 00:13:52,110 best environment you're going to convert 364 00:13:55,550 --> 00:13:53,580 anybody you're just gonna make a lot of 365 00:13:57,710 --> 00:13:55,560 enemies and call with feeling terrible 366 00:14:00,050 --> 00:13:57,720 about yourself i think so go along there 367 00:14:02,449 --> 00:14:00,060 and just listening and and and just 368 00:14:04,220 --> 00:14:02,459 observing and seeing the dynamic because 369 00:14:07,250 --> 00:14:04,230 this is this is what we're trying to 370 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:07,260 counteract you know and it's in a way 371 00:14:13,210 --> 00:14:09,650 what you don't want to do is have that 372 00:14:15,590 --> 00:14:13,220 observers influence you know that the 373 00:14:17,930 --> 00:14:15,600 experimental kind of observer kind of 374 00:14:20,210 --> 00:14:17,940 influence that if you're if you're there 375 00:14:22,490 --> 00:14:20,220 and just watching and yours quiet and 376 00:14:24,890 --> 00:14:22,500 silent and and and discreet as possible 377 00:14:26,930 --> 00:14:24,900 you get to see as it would be the moment 378 00:14:29,810 --> 00:14:26,940 you let on that you're skeptical or the 379 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:29,820 mall utilit and roll your eyes you 380 00:14:33,710 --> 00:14:32,490 influence the the proceedings we're not 381 00:14:36,170 --> 00:14:33,720 getting a true experience you know you 382 00:14:39,470 --> 00:14:36,180 and I think it's really invaluable to 383 00:14:42,019 --> 00:14:39,480 see what somebody who we're trying to 384 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:42,029 convince psychics aren't real find what 385 00:14:45,949 --> 00:14:44,490 they experience because but then you 386 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:45,959 know what we're counteracting you know 387 00:14:48,820 --> 00:14:47,370 that the power of it you know the the 388 00:14:51,310 --> 00:14:48,830 the 389 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:51,320 help us ways if it can be and you also 390 00:14:54,910 --> 00:14:53,570 know the tricks that you see going on in 391 00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:54,920 the moment you start climbing up as a 392 00:14:58,660 --> 00:14:57,530 skeptic I'd guarantee that the psychics 393 00:15:00,400 --> 00:14:58,670 going to shut down any hot meeting 394 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:00,410 that's going on straight away and just 395 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:01,730 going to focus on some fairly bunnell 396 00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:03,530 called readings Evan in the audience of 397 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:04,880 all we're happy about on you because 398 00:15:09,490 --> 00:15:06,770 you've seen the dulles to experience 399 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:09,500 possible well of course it's also the 400 00:15:13,870 --> 00:15:11,450 point and this has happened to me it's 401 00:15:16,030 --> 00:15:13,880 partly why I try to bite my tongue at 402 00:15:18,670 --> 00:15:16,040 mind-body wallet festivals or whatever 403 00:15:22,930 --> 00:15:18,680 the case may be is in very short time 404 00:15:27,010 --> 00:15:22,940 you're either told to sling your hook 405 00:15:29,110 --> 00:15:27,020 get away from my friend or possibly and 406 00:15:30,910 --> 00:15:29,120 this could have happened at the mind 407 00:15:32,950 --> 00:15:30,920 body spirit mind body wallet i went to 408 00:15:34,660 --> 00:15:32,960 recently if you stand there and argue 409 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:34,670 with the person also point out that 410 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:36,530 they're conning people all they have to 411 00:15:41,170 --> 00:15:39,170 do is call security yeah and and 412 00:15:42,580 --> 00:15:41,180 security would kick you out i mean there 413 00:15:45,330 --> 00:15:42,590 they are the stand you've just come 414 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:45,340 along and you're making a fuss and a no 415 00:15:51,730 --> 00:15:49,130 hullabaloo about it but so we're all 416 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:51,740 human and sometimes temper or your own 417 00:15:56,050 --> 00:15:53,930 sense of outrage gets the better of you 418 00:15:59,710 --> 00:15:56,060 but you are right it is best in most 419 00:16:01,630 --> 00:15:59,720 situations to bite your tongue and see 420 00:16:03,490 --> 00:16:01,640 how it goes see how it works you learn a 421 00:16:05,260 --> 00:16:03,500 lot more and if you want to take any 422 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:05,270 more action than well at least you can 423 00:16:08,830 --> 00:16:07,130 think about that down the track yeah i 424 00:16:10,990 --> 00:16:08,840 mean the way i see it a lot of people 425 00:16:13,420 --> 00:16:11,000 ask me you know when you when you are 426 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:13,430 talking to a homeopath pinner in a 427 00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:14,810 health food shop or when you're at a 428 00:16:18,580 --> 00:16:15,920 spiritualist church or when you're 429 00:16:20,950 --> 00:16:18,590 interviewing psychics for podcasts and 430 00:16:22,570 --> 00:16:20,960 things how do you keep how to keep you 431 00:16:23,740 --> 00:16:22,580 calm how do you keep your temper how do 432 00:16:26,650 --> 00:16:23,750 you not just start yelling at them it's 433 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:26,660 nonsense and what i was trying to say 434 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:28,370 what i always try and think of it am i 435 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:30,290 said to myself and how I try and frame 436 00:16:33,490 --> 00:16:31,370 it to people is like you what you need 437 00:16:34,900 --> 00:16:33,500 to do is in that conversation or that 438 00:16:37,660 --> 00:16:34,910 experience you need to reframe what 439 00:16:39,460 --> 00:16:37,670 success is because more people think 440 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:39,470 right I'm in an argument or in a 441 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:41,090 conversation success would be them 442 00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:43,610 agreeing with me then seeing my point of 443 00:16:45,910 --> 00:16:44,480 view and give you the whole thing up and 444 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:45,920 that's never going to happen you know 445 00:16:48,130 --> 00:16:46,970 you're never going to go to spruce to 446 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:48,140 church and convince them all that's crap 447 00:16:52,180 --> 00:16:50,330 so success in going to a Spiritist 448 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:52,190 church or debating with a homeopath or 449 00:16:55,660 --> 00:16:54,050 you know I or speaking to someone who 450 00:16:57,970 --> 00:16:55,670 believes the world 6,000 years old and 451 00:16:59,770 --> 00:16:57,980 God didn't sixth is success in that 452 00:17:02,079 --> 00:16:59,780 conversation is learning as much as 453 00:17:03,610 --> 00:17:02,089 possible about their point of view 454 00:17:06,579 --> 00:17:03,620 you know learning it learning all the 455 00:17:08,169 --> 00:17:06,589 arguments they use and learning what how 456 00:17:10,090 --> 00:17:08,179 their persuade people who aren't there 457 00:17:11,949 --> 00:17:10,100 for the fight but are there to to be 458 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:11,959 persuaded you know and picking all that 459 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:13,250 detail up because that's the ammunition 460 00:17:17,019 --> 00:17:15,770 you use later on because you know the 461 00:17:18,850 --> 00:17:17,029 next time you have in conversation with 462 00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:18,860 someone is not totally convinced you 463 00:17:22,539 --> 00:17:20,510 know what arguments they have you know 464 00:17:24,610 --> 00:17:22,549 that's that's that's interesting and 465 00:17:27,159 --> 00:17:24,620 I've found my experience that even 466 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:27,169 though I've I try to study and remember 467 00:17:31,630 --> 00:17:29,330 as many logical fallacies as i can so 468 00:17:33,460 --> 00:17:31,640 when they come up I know that the person 469 00:17:36,159 --> 00:17:33,470 i'm talking with is using a logical 470 00:17:37,899 --> 00:17:36,169 fallacy but what i found is useless is 471 00:17:40,330 --> 00:17:37,909 stopping them in their tracks and saying 472 00:17:43,149 --> 00:17:40,340 ah you've just used the logical fallacy 473 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:43,159 of argument from offhand or automatic I 474 00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:44,570 mean they're having a hard enough time 475 00:17:48,100 --> 00:17:46,370 talking with you anyway because you're 476 00:17:50,830 --> 00:17:48,110 saying oh I don't think those chakras 477 00:17:52,149 --> 00:17:50,840 are real you know and they're going you 478 00:17:54,070 --> 00:17:52,159 know their minds going a million miles 479 00:17:56,230 --> 00:17:54,080 now then to throw at them and by the way 480 00:18:00,190 --> 00:17:56,240 you're using a logical fallacy well it 481 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:00,200 really doesn't work no no I mean yeah it 482 00:18:04,810 --> 00:18:02,690 does annoy me when I hear logical 483 00:18:06,159 --> 00:18:04,820 fallacies trotted out in argument as if 484 00:18:07,630 --> 00:18:06,169 that wins the argument you know when 485 00:18:08,919 --> 00:18:07,640 some and so like with like the name of 486 00:18:10,419 --> 00:18:08,929 the logical fallacies so someone says 487 00:18:12,639 --> 00:18:10,429 all well call me off he must work 488 00:18:14,889 --> 00:18:12,649 because the the British Royal Family use 489 00:18:17,769 --> 00:18:14,899 it and so it says are odd argument from 490 00:18:19,570 --> 00:18:17,779 authority and the person says what you 491 00:18:21,100 --> 00:18:19,580 know you haven't won the argument there 492 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:21,110 you just stumped them and some people 493 00:18:23,769 --> 00:18:22,730 walk away looking feeling quite happy 494 00:18:25,870 --> 00:18:23,779 about themselves but you haven't done 495 00:18:27,820 --> 00:18:25,880 anything that for me did not the name of 496 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:27,830 the logical fallacies are just the 497 00:18:31,389 --> 00:18:29,330 labels that are written on the folder 498 00:18:33,970 --> 00:18:31,399 and in that folder is how to argue 499 00:18:35,380 --> 00:18:33,980 against that argument you know so when 500 00:18:36,730 --> 00:18:35,390 you see right there's logical fallacy 501 00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:36,740 its argument from Authority I'll go to 502 00:18:41,139 --> 00:18:39,200 the mental filing cabinet and and pick 503 00:18:42,909 --> 00:18:41,149 out ways of defusing an argument from 504 00:18:45,029 --> 00:18:42,919 authority and here the or laughs oh it's 505 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:45,039 just a it's a heuristic rather than 506 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:47,450 rather than argument you know seeing the 507 00:18:51,340 --> 00:18:48,890 argument poverty is not an argument 508 00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:51,350 itself I wonder if it almost is in 509 00:18:56,380 --> 00:18:53,600 itself an argument from Authority I'm 510 00:18:58,480 --> 00:18:56,390 not quite sure yeah that's that's if the 511 00:19:00,820 --> 00:18:58,490 conversation gets that far sometimes I 512 00:19:03,100 --> 00:19:00,830 discovered that people simply don't want 513 00:19:04,750 --> 00:19:03,110 to talk to me any longer yeah best one I 514 00:19:06,850 --> 00:19:04,760 heard was just the other day where a 515 00:19:09,220 --> 00:19:06,860 woman was trying to convince me that the 516 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:09,230 rake ian was real and chakras were real 517 00:19:13,210 --> 00:19:11,690 and the the best one of the arguments 518 00:19:17,580 --> 00:19:13,220 used was because that's what Jesus 519 00:19:24,190 --> 00:19:20,920 so that that conversation didn't last 520 00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:24,200 miss out weird but let's talk now Marsh 521 00:19:29,470 --> 00:19:26,960 about the podcast which is known all 522 00:19:31,090 --> 00:19:29,480 around the world which I frequently play 523 00:19:33,730 --> 00:19:31,100 ads for of course on the skeptic zone 524 00:19:35,410 --> 00:19:33,740 skeptics with a que you guys sound like 525 00:19:37,300 --> 00:19:35,420 you have a lot of fun make note podcast 526 00:19:39,100 --> 00:19:37,310 oh yeah I mean it is a huge amount of 527 00:19:41,410 --> 00:19:39,110 fun and I wish we could get Mike and 528 00:19:43,750 --> 00:19:41,420 Colin on the show at the same time 529 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:43,760 together three of us on but the hell one 530 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:45,650 day we will they're harder to pin down 531 00:19:47,950 --> 00:19:46,850 this is the problem being on the other 532 00:19:49,330 --> 00:19:47,960 side of the world you know we've got the 533 00:19:50,470 --> 00:19:49,340 Lords of listeners in Australia but 534 00:19:52,810 --> 00:19:50,480 we're over here so in totally different 535 00:19:55,630 --> 00:19:52,820 time zones but oh yeah I mean it's a 536 00:19:57,370 --> 00:19:55,640 blast and it's it's alarming how often I 537 00:19:58,840 --> 00:19:57,380 think I've arrived at the shore ever 538 00:20:00,640 --> 00:19:58,850 right could be record it in my ex back 539 00:20:01,690 --> 00:20:00,650 bedroom with dinosaur wallpapers and 540 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:01,700 it's just you know it's his office but 541 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:04,010 it's a it was a I think it was a child's 542 00:20:06,340 --> 00:20:05,090 bedroom when he moved into the house 543 00:20:08,350 --> 00:20:06,350 he's never bought the changing it so 544 00:20:10,270 --> 00:20:08,360 it's got dinosaur wallpaper and it's 545 00:20:12,220 --> 00:20:10,280 kind of a bit of it pits uh interesting 546 00:20:14,170 --> 00:20:12,230 life army kind of just sit around a 547 00:20:16,420 --> 00:20:14,180 table then just the number times I've 548 00:20:18,580 --> 00:20:16,430 arrived at his house to have to record 549 00:20:19,780 --> 00:20:18,590 the show thinking I've got a crap story 550 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:19,790 this week I don't think it's going to 551 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:21,530 work I wonder whether the will actually 552 00:20:24,130 --> 00:20:22,610 be able to put this together I probably 553 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:24,140 haven't researched as much I should I've 554 00:20:27,910 --> 00:20:26,330 spent an hour on this after work I 555 00:20:29,650 --> 00:20:27,920 should've done something and then we get 556 00:20:32,230 --> 00:20:29,660 there and the short just kind of comes 557 00:20:34,060 --> 00:20:32,240 together because we I think we had a 558 00:20:35,620 --> 00:20:34,070 rule up front that you're allowed to 559 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:35,630 interrupt anyone at any points long as 560 00:20:41,050 --> 00:20:39,290 what you say is funny and the only rule 561 00:20:43,660 --> 00:20:41,060 for what stays in the shore by marge is 562 00:20:45,580 --> 00:20:43,670 if it's funny it's tears in if it's live 563 00:20:46,900 --> 00:20:45,590 it's informative but it comes off a bit 564 00:20:48,550 --> 00:20:46,910 that wasn't funny it probably gets 565 00:20:49,900 --> 00:20:48,560 cooked more often than if it's funny but 566 00:20:51,790 --> 00:20:49,910 comes up a bit that what an informative 567 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:51,800 you know i think i think it's kind of a 568 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:55,370 race i find it funny and informative 569 00:20:59,950 --> 00:20:57,890 it's it's a great podcast it comes out 570 00:21:02,620 --> 00:20:59,960 every two weeks doesn't yeah it does 571 00:21:04,450 --> 00:21:02,630 yeah yeah and I guess the thing I like 572 00:21:07,300 --> 00:21:04,460 about doing the show is it gives us a 573 00:21:08,830 --> 00:21:07,310 chance to be to actually employ so 574 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:08,840 because it's not every week and because 575 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:10,490 we gone we don't do life interviews and 576 00:21:12,490 --> 00:21:11,330 stuff like that but you know there are 577 00:21:13,690 --> 00:21:12,500 lots of shows out there who do great 578 00:21:16,060 --> 00:21:13,700 interviews and your skeptics on 579 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:16,070 phenomenal we would not be better than 580 00:21:18,970 --> 00:21:17,090 the skeptics on there doing interviews 581 00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:18,980 of people by this and so we just you 582 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:20,960 know we set up front we're not going to 583 00:21:24,130 --> 00:21:22,850 be bad so we does not find competing 584 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:24,140 will do something different you know the 585 00:21:27,910 --> 00:21:26,090 listening I'll wear but it gets it means 586 00:21:29,139 --> 00:21:27,920 that we get to take a topic and say 587 00:21:30,729 --> 00:21:29,149 right I saw this 588 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:30,739 let's really dig into this we're not 589 00:21:34,979 --> 00:21:32,210 experts in what we do you know we're not 590 00:21:36,789 --> 00:21:34,989 i have like mike has no medical 591 00:21:38,169 --> 00:21:36,799 qualifications but he's really good at 592 00:21:39,639 --> 00:21:38,179 doing the skepticism around the old 593 00:21:41,079 --> 00:21:39,649 medicine kind of stuff and I've got no 594 00:21:42,369 --> 00:21:41,089 qualifications in anything useful i've 595 00:21:45,430 --> 00:21:42,379 got an english degree you know that's 596 00:21:46,779 --> 00:21:45,440 the definition of useless but at least i 597 00:21:48,459 --> 00:21:46,789 know the dish of useless because I've 598 00:21:49,779 --> 00:21:48,469 got an English degree you know so it at 599 00:21:52,180 --> 00:21:49,789 least two helped me define how useless 600 00:21:54,249 --> 00:21:52,190 my own degree is but it just means that 601 00:21:55,629 --> 00:21:54,259 we get to actually apply skepticism on 602 00:21:56,950 --> 00:21:55,639 the fly you know we get to sort of sit 603 00:21:58,570 --> 00:21:56,960 down pick a topic and really pick it 604 00:21:59,649 --> 00:21:58,580 apart in the same where any one of our 605 00:22:01,299 --> 00:21:59,659 listeners could do and i think that's 606 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:01,309 that's what we like to try and do so you 607 00:22:05,979 --> 00:22:04,129 don't need to be you don't need to have 608 00:22:08,979 --> 00:22:05,989 a degree in this a degree in that you 609 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:08,989 just need to know the subject and really 610 00:22:12,249 --> 00:22:10,369 in big compared to really look through 611 00:22:15,099 --> 00:22:12,259 the subject and prepared not to you know 612 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:15,109 take any particular sources as gospel 613 00:22:20,289 --> 00:22:17,330 truth and you know what want to get to 614 00:22:22,419 --> 00:22:20,299 the bottom of it really well as my 615 00:22:24,700 --> 00:22:22,429 friend Jane develop from the skeptics 616 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:24,710 guide to the universe said to be one 617 00:22:27,909 --> 00:22:26,210 time a couple of years ago when we were 618 00:22:31,269 --> 00:22:27,919 discussing our different podcasts he 619 00:22:33,489 --> 00:22:31,279 said when when one of us wins we all win 620 00:22:35,169 --> 00:22:33,499 which is his way of saying that there's 621 00:22:36,669 --> 00:22:35,179 no real competition we're not out to 622 00:22:38,769 --> 00:22:36,679 compete against each other or maybe a 623 00:22:41,109 --> 00:22:38,779 little only to make our own shows a bit 624 00:22:43,269 --> 00:22:41,119 better maybe but there's no sense of how 625 00:22:44,919 --> 00:22:43,279 I've I can do better than the other.show 626 00:22:46,739 --> 00:22:44,929 because if the other show does well then 627 00:22:49,239 --> 00:22:46,749 the movement the skeptical and 628 00:22:51,249 --> 00:22:49,249 reasonable critical time thinking 629 00:22:53,469 --> 00:22:51,259 movement we all win don't we yeah 630 00:22:56,339 --> 00:22:53,479 absolutely you know and I think that 631 00:22:58,749 --> 00:22:56,349 that's a key point and so is that the 632 00:23:00,759 --> 00:22:58,759 this shouldn't be a pyramid you know 633 00:23:03,639 --> 00:23:00,769 this whole thing isn't a pyramid it's 634 00:23:05,289 --> 00:23:03,649 yeah I guess it's what a trapezium I'm 635 00:23:07,479 --> 00:23:05,299 not sure orbited in good shape is but 636 00:23:08,649 --> 00:23:07,489 the wider the top the better you know 637 00:23:11,379 --> 00:23:08,659 the more people who are up there doing 638 00:23:12,909 --> 00:23:11,389 stuff that's public that's that if it's 639 00:23:13,989 --> 00:23:12,919 good quality and it's at the top you 640 00:23:16,029 --> 00:23:13,999 know the more people doing that the 641 00:23:19,299 --> 00:23:16,039 better we don't need to all coalesce 642 00:23:21,310 --> 00:23:19,309 around a number of core personality I 643 00:23:23,589 --> 00:23:21,320 think maybe that's where skepticism was 644 00:23:25,389 --> 00:23:23,599 before I was involved in skepticism I 645 00:23:26,919 --> 00:23:25,399 hear that you know it was before before 646 00:23:30,729 --> 00:23:26,929 the internet was able to knit everyone 647 00:23:32,529 --> 00:23:30,739 together it was you know a really fit 648 00:23:34,149 --> 00:23:32,539 was Randy here you know it was it was 649 00:23:35,529 --> 00:23:34,159 Johnny fellow with Martin Garvin there 650 00:23:36,639 --> 00:23:35,539 was there were really great prominent 651 00:23:38,889 --> 00:23:36,649 people and they were doing fantastic 652 00:23:40,749 --> 00:23:38,899 work whereas I think now we have those 653 00:23:41,470 --> 00:23:40,759 people but we also have people you know 654 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:41,480 we've got 655 00:23:45,310 --> 00:23:43,010 Lords of all people you know that it's a 656 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:45,320 really spread exact red top yeah yeah 657 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:47,450 yeah it is and and of course the more 658 00:23:51,430 --> 00:23:49,570 the merrier and the more people like 659 00:23:53,130 --> 00:23:51,440 yourself and other people around the 660 00:23:55,919 --> 00:23:53,140 world who are doing things not only 661 00:23:58,510 --> 00:23:55,929 sitting back and making podcasts or 662 00:24:01,960 --> 00:23:58,520 investigating psychics or whatever but 663 00:24:05,289 --> 00:24:01,970 actually making real change and bringing 664 00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:05,299 about real movement be it in chasing up 665 00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:08,000 power bands or chasing homeopathy with 666 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:10,640 your incredibly successful 1023 campaign 667 00:24:14,650 --> 00:24:12,650 that's what gives me great hope and 668 00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:14,660 heart because we can make a difference 669 00:24:18,909 --> 00:24:16,640 and we do make a difference yeah no 670 00:24:19,659 --> 00:24:18,919 absolutely and I think it's I'd like to 671 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:19,669 think that we're only going to get 672 00:24:23,110 --> 00:24:21,530 stronger at that you know I'm optimistic 673 00:24:27,010 --> 00:24:23,120 that things will only get stronger as 674 00:24:28,060 --> 00:24:27,020 people make stronger networks and talk 675 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:28,070 to each other more and come up with 676 00:24:31,810 --> 00:24:30,650 ideas and you know we work together to 677 00:24:33,700 --> 00:24:31,820 get things tournament is that is that 678 00:24:35,260 --> 00:24:33,710 hopelessly optimistic is that like 679 00:24:37,510 --> 00:24:35,270 innocently naive I'm not quite sure but 680 00:24:39,610 --> 00:24:37,520 that's what i like to think well I think 681 00:24:43,090 --> 00:24:39,620 the proof is the proof is really in the 682 00:24:45,100 --> 00:24:43,100 pudding i mean i beez as i do i've been 683 00:24:47,830 --> 00:24:45,110 scanning the newswise on the homeopathy 684 00:24:49,630 --> 00:24:47,840 stories and those a newsletter came out 685 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:49,640 just the other day from homeopathy plus 686 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:52,970 here in australia and so many stories in 687 00:24:57,100 --> 00:24:54,890 the newsletter is all about attacks on 688 00:24:59,289 --> 00:24:57,110 homeopathy homeopathy under threat yada 689 00:25:01,600 --> 00:24:59,299 yada yada I'm thinking you beauty yeah 690 00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:01,610 stuff yeah absolutely because I mean I'm 691 00:25:05,169 --> 00:25:03,710 sure there was a time when that news 692 00:25:07,330 --> 00:25:05,179 that who had been filled with here's 693 00:25:09,130 --> 00:25:07,340 some magic water to cure your you know 694 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:09,140 whatever ails you you whooping cough to 695 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:11,330 be instead of a vaccine whereas now if 696 00:25:14,169 --> 00:25:12,530 they're spending all the time worrying 697 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:14,179 about us at least they're not they are 698 00:25:18,610 --> 00:25:16,250 spending all their time finding new ways 699 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:18,620 to flood people crap you know yeah it's 700 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:20,690 it's great the enemies of reason have 701 00:25:24,549 --> 00:25:22,490 got enemies of themselves now which is 702 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:24,559 us and I think that's just fantastic 703 00:25:31,299 --> 00:25:28,730 yeah yeah now listen is if you want to 704 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:31,309 find out more about the Merseyside 705 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:33,290 skeptics society and the wonderful 706 00:25:42,039 --> 00:25:36,610 skeptics with a cape podcast head for 707 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:42,049 wwz side skeptics org dot UK and you can 708 00:25:46,659 --> 00:25:44,450 find out more about the podcast and what 709 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:46,669 you get up to over there and now i can 710 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:48,770 even have a peep on your website and 711 00:25:52,060 --> 00:25:50,330 there's even a twitter stream what more 712 00:25:53,230 --> 00:25:52,070 could you want there there is there is 713 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:53,240 we don't use the twitter stream as much 714 00:25:56,020 --> 00:25:54,410 as we used to 715 00:25:58,810 --> 00:25:56,030 I think of the problem but we do other 716 00:26:00,280 --> 00:25:58,820 things like you know 10 23 and challenge 717 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:00,290 psychic Sally and other things so I 718 00:26:04,660 --> 00:26:01,610 think we can get off with not using 719 00:26:07,090 --> 00:26:04,670 Twitter as a group very often all right 720 00:26:09,370 --> 00:26:07,100 Marsh I look forward to interviewing you 721 00:26:11,710 --> 00:26:09,380 again before too long maybe with the 722 00:26:13,390 --> 00:26:11,720 others from skeptics of the K and we can 723 00:26:15,850 --> 00:26:13,400 get an update we can talk more maybe 724 00:26:19,330 --> 00:26:15,860 about your thinking behind the wonderful 725 00:26:24,070 --> 00:26:19,340 1023 campaign and maybe your thoughts 726 00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:24,080 for QED in 2013 yeah I mean next time we 727 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:25,760 chapter I'll maybe tell you a couple of 728 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:27,170 the ideas we got about what to do next 729 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:29,450 with 10 23 because we have got a few 730 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:30,530 plans we don't like to sit on our 731 00:26:34,750 --> 00:26:32,930 laurels for too long so I think 10 23 we 732 00:26:36,010 --> 00:26:34,760 will be looking to get something moving 733 00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:36,020 so maybe I'll there I'll have a chat to 734 00:26:40,660 --> 00:26:38,720 you about that next that sounds good 735 00:26:42,970 --> 00:26:40,670 Michael Marshall from the Merseyside 736 00:26:45,790 --> 00:26:42,980 skeptics society and next time in the UK 737 00:26:47,710 --> 00:26:45,800 I'm bound to get over to Liverpool and 738 00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:47,720 check it out thanks for talking to the 739 00:27:03,700 --> 00:26:49,370 skeptic zone it's been a pleasure thanks 740 00:27:06,940 --> 00:27:03,710 I'll Richard hi this is brian dunning 741 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:06,950 from the sceptile cast ats kept ID com 742 00:27:13,090 --> 00:27:10,610 for 15 years now dr. Bob's trivia quiz 743 00:27:16,270 --> 00:27:13,100 has been a part of Australian skeptics 744 00:27:18,670 --> 00:27:16,280 each month the mysterious dr. Bob comes 745 00:27:21,220 --> 00:27:18,680 up with questions that defy all logic 746 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:21,230 and reason only the best of the best 747 00:27:26,380 --> 00:27:23,690 dare attempt to answer these brain 748 00:27:29,970 --> 00:27:26,390 twisters and no google won't help you 749 00:27:35,470 --> 00:27:29,980 visit dr. bob's quiz wordpress.com 750 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:35,480 that's dr be OBS quiz wordpress.com to 751 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:37,370 take part and to see the complete 752 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:40,610 archive of dr. bob's trivia quiz i'm 753 00:27:59,590 --> 00:27:57,210 here's may not spooky action at the 754 00:28:02,300 --> 00:27:59,600 distance 755 00:28:03,890 --> 00:28:02,310 well as you heard there in the intro I'm 756 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:03,900 Joel though you didn't know you're going 757 00:28:07,370 --> 00:28:05,010 to be interviewed but it's too late now 758 00:28:09,710 --> 00:28:07,380 you're on the running order mmm it's 759 00:28:12,770 --> 00:28:09,720 good to find out look I reckon with the 760 00:28:15,260 --> 00:28:12,780 talk more spanking stories more spanking 761 00:28:16,850 --> 00:28:15,270 stories I know that that's always a big 762 00:28:18,620 --> 00:28:16,860 way to get a captive audience isn't it 763 00:28:20,990 --> 00:28:18,630 actually could you read a little bit of 764 00:28:22,490 --> 00:28:21,000 you got the letter there i'm now this is 765 00:28:26,030 --> 00:28:22,500 the special christian site you mentioned 766 00:28:27,470 --> 00:28:26,040 that skeptics in the pub one of many 767 00:28:30,020 --> 00:28:27,480 that has to do with disciplining your 768 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:30,030 wife the christian way i know and bother 769 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:31,290 would you make it the audience here 770 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:34,530 because i know often with the skeptic 771 00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:36,810 crowd you get a certain response that is 772 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:39,510 expected and we've spoken about that 773 00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:41,370 before did you get any unusual questions 774 00:28:46,130 --> 00:28:43,710 from the floor today not particularly i 775 00:28:49,130 --> 00:28:46,140 suppose i didn't really want it to be a 776 00:28:51,530 --> 00:28:49,140 major like a major like let's try and 777 00:28:52,910 --> 00:28:51,540 drill joel and find out new answers I I 778 00:28:55,010 --> 00:28:52,920 didn't want to be a person like now 779 00:28:56,570 --> 00:28:55,020 proposing I had the grand solution I 780 00:28:58,490 --> 00:28:56,580 didn't actually really wanted to hear 781 00:29:00,050 --> 00:28:58,500 what people had to say and you know 782 00:29:01,310 --> 00:29:00,060 people of course are very accommodating 783 00:29:04,850 --> 00:29:01,320 and gave some really interesting 784 00:29:05,900 --> 00:29:04,860 insights things obviously I didn't let 785 00:29:08,390 --> 00:29:05,910 me tell you should have seen there is 786 00:29:11,330 --> 00:29:08,400 pick up once you you open with this what 787 00:29:14,990 --> 00:29:11,340 at first sounds what could be like a 70s 788 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:15,000 penthouse letter yeah a little bit III 789 00:29:21,610 --> 00:29:17,130 thought for a long time I really thought 790 00:29:24,500 --> 00:29:21,620 that this was a hope you know quake and 791 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:24,510 and I was so pleased to find out that it 792 00:29:27,980 --> 00:29:26,250 wasn't I must tell you it just warmin to 793 00:29:29,270 --> 00:29:27,990 my heart and then the website is this 794 00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:29,280 again and what are you going to read it 795 00:29:34,340 --> 00:29:31,200 this is a Christian domestic discipline 796 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:34,350 calm and there's a section there four 797 00:29:38,700 --> 00:29:36,810 wives and this one's called my first 798 00:29:41,620 --> 00:29:38,710 time 799 00:29:43,450 --> 00:29:41,630 so you just give us the opening and 800 00:29:46,090 --> 00:29:43,460 closing paragraphs I think I think we 801 00:29:48,670 --> 00:29:46,100 can fill the rest in well i finally got 802 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:48,680 my first spanking thanks to a suggestion 803 00:29:53,260 --> 00:29:50,210 and my loving head of households 804 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:53,270 permission it was a test bank now last 805 00:29:57,910 --> 00:29:55,490 paragraph for all you head of households 806 00:30:00,580 --> 00:29:57,920 out there who haven't spanked yet or 807 00:30:02,980 --> 00:30:00,590 have but I still knew it don't worry so 808 00:30:04,780 --> 00:30:02,990 much my darling husband took control and 809 00:30:06,820 --> 00:30:04,790 told me what to expect if I mess up 810 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:06,830 again he was very serious 811 00:30:11,620 --> 00:30:09,290 straightforward and confident even if he 812 00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:11,630 had no clue about what he was doing he 813 00:30:16,570 --> 00:30:14,240 sure did not let me know it that his 814 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:16,580 wife was so good about this had he 815 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:18,530 wavered or showed insecurity I may have 816 00:30:22,930 --> 00:30:20,810 kept pushing to find the limit this way 817 00:30:24,790 --> 00:30:22,940 i didn't have to he taught me exactly 818 00:30:27,220 --> 00:30:24,800 where the limit was and saw him at peace 819 00:30:29,170 --> 00:30:27,230 with it now i believe they're adopting 820 00:30:31,060 --> 00:30:29,180 that discipline for city rail in the 821 00:30:32,590 --> 00:30:31,070 future yeah well it wouldn't make him 822 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:32,600 travelling to work in the morning a bit 823 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:34,250 more enjoyable well if the train driver 824 00:30:37,660 --> 00:30:35,810 knew he was getting a spanking if he was 825 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:37,670 late I mean that could change things but 826 00:30:41,020 --> 00:30:39,290 maybe for the worse I was also thinking 827 00:30:42,490 --> 00:30:41,030 of like the passengers who refused to 828 00:30:44,050 --> 00:30:42,500 get in the doors the whole way and just 829 00:30:45,490 --> 00:30:44,060 stand there and block up yeah the 830 00:30:47,350 --> 00:30:45,500 entranceway for everyone else and people 831 00:30:49,630 --> 00:30:47,360 who yak on the phone really loudly for a 832 00:30:50,950 --> 00:30:49,640 long period of time a spanky there and 833 00:30:52,330 --> 00:30:50,960 then if there would be some kind of 834 00:30:54,220 --> 00:30:52,340 convention you know like in Japan with 835 00:30:56,620 --> 00:30:54,230 the white gloves yeah we could give out 836 00:30:58,450 --> 00:30:56,630 our trained guards and our like a 837 00:31:00,160 --> 00:30:58,460 gentleman with brown gloves who could do 838 00:31:02,020 --> 00:31:00,170 the spanking yeah exactly that would be 839 00:31:03,220 --> 00:31:02,030 just magical you know we'll enjoy your 840 00:31:04,810 --> 00:31:03,230 day at skip you can what are you looking 841 00:31:06,310 --> 00:31:04,820 forward to do today well your talk 842 00:31:08,830 --> 00:31:06,320 obviously well yeah it's going to be 843 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:08,840 pretty half-baked and also is mine so we 844 00:31:13,500 --> 00:31:11,170 should be two peas & 845 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:13,510 and and of course ratbags is coming up 846 00:31:19,830 --> 00:31:15,010 as well so that should be fascinating as 847 00:31:20,970 --> 00:31:19,840 usual right c letter c letter well one 848 00:31:22,950 --> 00:31:20,980 of the things i wasn't expecting today 849 00:31:24,990 --> 00:31:22,960 at skip to camp sydney was a bit of 850 00:31:26,730 --> 00:31:25,000 performance poetry and I expected some 851 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:26,740 interpretive dance but you ducked out on 852 00:31:29,850 --> 00:31:28,210 the interpretive dance who've we got 853 00:31:32,430 --> 00:31:29,860 here what have you just done to this 854 00:31:36,330 --> 00:31:32,440 room I'm Shelley stockin and I've just 855 00:31:40,190 --> 00:31:36,340 read a rhyming piece about what it is 856 00:31:43,740 --> 00:31:40,200 that goes on inside scammers heads and 857 00:31:45,330 --> 00:31:43,750 why I don't have that and what is what 858 00:31:47,430 --> 00:31:45,340 you think is the most obvious scam in 859 00:31:49,220 --> 00:31:47,440 everyday life once I was ask people 860 00:31:52,850 --> 00:31:49,230 what's the whew that gets your goat 861 00:31:57,270 --> 00:31:52,860 homeopathy is my top 3 homeopathy 862 00:31:59,040 --> 00:31:57,280 vaccine denial and psychics am I really 863 00:32:00,810 --> 00:31:59,050 hated things but I just come on psychic 864 00:32:02,820 --> 00:32:00,820 TV on a sad day night it's great with a 865 00:32:06,870 --> 00:32:02,830 few drinks it is awesome entertainment 866 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:06,880 with a capital e and now what did you 867 00:32:09,780 --> 00:32:08,650 arm now can't can't really ask you how 868 00:32:10,620 --> 00:32:09,790 to who you had in mind when you wrote 869 00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:10,630 this because that could be a bit 870 00:32:14,970 --> 00:32:13,510 illegally difficult but you will get to 871 00:32:16,770 --> 00:32:14,980 the payment of my own moment and the 872 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:16,780 sort of a mood that you were selling it 873 00:32:20,550 --> 00:32:18,250 did remind me of that great piece brian 874 00:32:21,870 --> 00:32:20,560 dunning did about the band they were 875 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:21,880 around their heads did you see that one 876 00:32:28,170 --> 00:32:24,970 I didn't say that one um I know a few 877 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:28,180 19th century poets but our brian dunning 878 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:30,850 is a little bit too young for me yeah 879 00:32:33,870 --> 00:32:32,290 yeah and you know and he's got that 880 00:32:36,030 --> 00:32:33,880 voice great voice doesn't have quite the 881 00:32:37,740 --> 00:32:36,040 same effect on me as it does you know I 882 00:32:40,260 --> 00:32:37,750 can see where you're coming here it's 883 00:32:41,430 --> 00:32:40,270 purely I personal level there and have 884 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:41,440 you performed this in front of audience 885 00:32:46,380 --> 00:32:43,930 before now I haven't now what is this 886 00:32:48,300 --> 00:32:46,390 about being a new year's resolution for 887 00:32:52,250 --> 00:32:48,310 you are you cleanse now is your aura a 888 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:52,260 different color now after this it is I 889 00:32:56,790 --> 00:32:55,450 about a year ago I heard somebody say 890 00:32:58,800 --> 00:32:56,800 they wanted to do something that really 891 00:33:00,240 --> 00:32:58,810 scared them and I don't usually make new 892 00:33:03,060 --> 00:33:00,250 year's resolutions but that sounded like 893 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:03,070 a good one so so what you could easily 894 00:33:07,980 --> 00:33:06,250 just robbed a bank yeah but this this 895 00:33:10,020 --> 00:33:07,990 takes a lot less planning and I don't 896 00:33:11,730 --> 00:33:10,030 have to buy special clothes mmm that's 897 00:33:14,670 --> 00:33:11,740 good all other risks are a lot greater 898 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:14,680 of reading poetry in public yes yeah i 899 00:33:17,940 --> 00:33:16,330 mean i mean i was at one of those ones 900 00:33:19,590 --> 00:33:17,950 earlier and then there was people 901 00:33:21,540 --> 00:33:19,600 getting cut into the speedy was getting 902 00:33:24,210 --> 00:33:21,550 chewed up yeah i was ready for a fight 903 00:33:27,029 --> 00:33:24,220 of I do have a black belt in karate 904 00:33:28,260 --> 00:33:27,039 so I'm prepared well without further ado 905 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:28,270 after knowing that I think we should get 906 00:33:36,750 --> 00:33:32,530 to your poem this is called a day in the 907 00:33:38,909 --> 00:33:36,760 life of a scrupulous woo peddler from a 908 00:33:41,850 --> 00:33:38,919 fitful Restless slumber wracked with 909 00:33:44,669 --> 00:33:41,860 troubled dreams I woke with my stomach 910 00:33:47,730 --> 00:33:44,679 grumbling loudly I was hungry I was 911 00:33:51,870 --> 00:33:47,740 broke when I looked into my later I 912 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:51,880 found nothing but kiss nada my abysmal 913 00:33:58,260 --> 00:33:54,370 dearth of food and funds had gone beyond 914 00:34:00,899 --> 00:33:58,270 a joke then a gleam from something shiny 915 00:34:02,940 --> 00:34:00,909 drew my sucker seeking gaze could it be 916 00:34:05,730 --> 00:34:02,950 a tin of kidney beans a jar of 917 00:34:10,290 --> 00:34:05,740 mayonnaise fish with olive oil anointed 918 00:34:12,839 --> 00:34:10,300 I was quickly disappointed just an empty 919 00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:12,849 jar left over from more lavish food 920 00:34:19,859 --> 00:34:17,169 field days then the realization hit me I 921 00:34:22,710 --> 00:34:19,869 began to understand I was holding the 922 00:34:25,379 --> 00:34:22,720 solution to my problem in my hand this 923 00:34:27,570 --> 00:34:25,389 was not an empty vessel soon my mind 924 00:34:31,619 --> 00:34:27,580 began to wrestle with the idea that my 925 00:34:33,780 --> 00:34:31,629 future lay within and it was grand for 926 00:34:36,570 --> 00:34:33,790 this little jar of nothing full of 927 00:34:38,339 --> 00:34:36,580 wonderment unseen was to make the kind 928 00:34:41,430 --> 00:34:38,349 of riches that could disconcert the 929 00:34:44,550 --> 00:34:41,440 queen though I couldn't see nor smell it 930 00:34:46,349 --> 00:34:44,560 I could bottle it and sell it it would 931 00:34:49,820 --> 00:34:46,359 be the greatest miracle that there had 932 00:34:52,349 --> 00:34:49,830 ever been I could see the sales pitch 933 00:34:54,210 --> 00:34:52,359 scientists don't want me to reveal how 934 00:34:57,570 --> 00:34:54,220 this quite amazing product helps the 935 00:34:59,940 --> 00:34:57,580 human body heal ancient shamaness known 936 00:35:02,490 --> 00:34:59,950 it since the dawn of time now owned it 937 00:35:06,990 --> 00:35:02,500 for a couple hundred bucks we're talking 938 00:35:10,109 --> 00:35:07,000 wellness that's a steal but is it safe I 939 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:10,119 hear you ask I'm sensitive you see don't 940 00:35:15,089 --> 00:35:12,130 you worry it's non-toxic dolphin-safe 941 00:35:17,730 --> 00:35:15,099 and gluten-free there's no mercury or 942 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:17,740 dairy it's all natural there's no scary 943 00:35:25,050 --> 00:35:21,130 added hormones sugar transferred BPA or 944 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:25,060 msg it can take away a migraine in a 945 00:35:31,530 --> 00:35:28,570 single day or two it can help your body 946 00:35:33,810 --> 00:35:31,540 rid itself of chickenpox or flu using 947 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:33,820 frequencies in quantum they're quite 948 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:36,490 complex but you want them there's no end 949 00:35:41,010 --> 00:35:38,050 to all the health promoting 950 00:35:42,660 --> 00:35:41,020 things this stuff can do I don't need a 951 00:35:45,180 --> 00:35:42,670 lot of evidence because I can just 952 00:35:48,630 --> 00:35:45,190 surmise that without this every single 953 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:48,640 person suffocates and dies sure there's 954 00:35:54,630 --> 00:35:51,850 stuff like trials and testing but let's 955 00:35:56,610 --> 00:35:54,640 focus on investing in the health of 956 00:36:01,140 --> 00:35:56,620 every person and how much each person 957 00:36:05,100 --> 00:36:01,150 buys then I had to stop and check myself 958 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:05,110 and wonder is this fair is it right for 959 00:36:10,290 --> 00:36:07,530 me to make a profit selling people air 960 00:36:12,660 --> 00:36:10,300 could I really justify it just because 961 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:12,670 gormless fools would buy it could I 962 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:14,770 callously defraud them and pretend I 963 00:36:23,370 --> 00:36:20,890 didn't care hmm no I couldn't trade on 964 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:23,380 stupid lies deceit and baseless fear I 965 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:26,290 could never be so heartless mercenary in 966 00:36:32,660 --> 00:36:29,890 cavalier no I'd rather forego eating 967 00:36:36,570 --> 00:36:32,670 then get rich from tawdry cheating and 968 00:36:40,860 --> 00:36:36,580 that night I slept a dreamless sleep my 969 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:40,870 conscience crystal clear and that's only 970 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:42,130 the third time you've done it are you 971 00:36:46,050 --> 00:36:44,050 doing a dance there yeah look at this 972 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:46,060 was TV you'd see an interpretive dance 973 00:36:51,060 --> 00:36:48,370 of you dreaming and where can people 974 00:36:54,300 --> 00:36:51,070 find you on Twitter online I'm sure 975 00:36:56,790 --> 00:36:54,310 Lottie on Twitter and my blog which has 976 00:37:00,870 --> 00:36:56,800 got a few other reasonably dodgy rhymes 977 00:37:02,100 --> 00:37:00,880 is a charity dot blog spot.com right 978 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:02,110 thank you and I hope you have a lovely 979 00:37:07,140 --> 00:37:04,810 dream tonight thank you may note it may 980 00:37:11,859 --> 00:37:07,150 be about Ryan Dunning and if that's good 981 00:37:14,620 --> 00:37:11,869 or not oh I've had those to this so good 982 00:37:16,539 --> 00:37:14,630 i'm here at the skeptics table where 983 00:37:19,359 --> 00:37:16,549 they're selling their um their t-shirts 984 00:37:21,609 --> 00:37:19,369 um in a bit of a girly cut that I like 985 00:37:25,210 --> 00:37:21,619 your girlie t-shirt I'm eating again 986 00:37:26,589 --> 00:37:25,220 don't talk well that's dr. rate you up 987 00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:26,599 for the rest of the show we've got the 988 00:37:30,460 --> 00:37:28,730 joke over here hi Joe I know may not how 989 00:37:32,559 --> 00:37:30,470 are you I'm just fine now how are you 990 00:37:34,839 --> 00:37:32,569 finding this skeptic am oh just as 991 00:37:36,730 --> 00:37:34,849 fabulous as last year's great talks lots 992 00:37:37,779 --> 00:37:36,740 of contribution have you had a fake out 993 00:37:41,079 --> 00:37:37,789 and think you are causing some 994 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:41,089 controversy but you stood up pulled your 995 00:37:45,279 --> 00:37:43,130 top up and went that's that shall not 996 00:37:47,710 --> 00:37:45,289 stand under this Christian nation you 997 00:37:49,089 --> 00:37:47,720 yell and I thought well that's okay but 998 00:37:53,049 --> 00:37:49,099 rally in the corridor having coffee I 999 00:37:54,339 --> 00:37:53,059 mean I mean yeah um so now you've made I 1000 00:37:57,519 --> 00:37:54,349 guess you can go home now yeah I know 1001 00:37:59,680 --> 00:37:57,529 I've done my bit what's been your 1002 00:38:01,900 --> 00:37:59,690 favorite talk today um well I actually 1003 00:38:03,130 --> 00:38:01,910 sadly i missed the one talk i got the 1004 00:38:04,299 --> 00:38:03,140 tail end of a talk that i thought would 1005 00:38:07,870 --> 00:38:04,309 be quite interesting which is on 1006 00:38:09,130 --> 00:38:07,880 philosophy of philosophy and psychiatry 1007 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:09,140 i think it was a force to be to 1008 00:38:13,299 --> 00:38:11,210 psychiatry ourselves a scientology talk 1009 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:13,309 no I thought it would be quite 1010 00:38:18,249 --> 00:38:14,450 interesting but I only got the ire 1011 00:38:19,089 --> 00:38:18,259 everyone others seem to disagree but yes 1012 00:38:22,569 --> 00:38:19,099 I thought that would be quite 1013 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:22,579 interesting and I'm waiting for some of 1014 00:38:27,249 --> 00:38:25,130 the afternoons talks but yes actually 1015 00:38:30,220 --> 00:38:27,259 Shelley Shelley stopped and gave a 1016 00:38:32,499 --> 00:38:30,230 fantastic talk all she recited one of 1017 00:38:36,729 --> 00:38:32,509 her poems which talked about the ethics 1018 00:38:38,890 --> 00:38:36,739 of woo and woo peddlers and you know the 1019 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:38,900 ones conscience in terms of going into 1020 00:38:42,970 --> 00:38:41,930 selling nonsense to people and do you 1021 00:38:45,099 --> 00:38:42,980 think there's a theme this year does it 1022 00:38:47,289 --> 00:38:45,109 seem to be a bit of a a meme running 1023 00:38:48,789 --> 00:38:47,299 through the day no really i think the 1024 00:38:51,220 --> 00:38:48,799 talks are quite varied actually we've 1025 00:38:55,180 --> 00:38:51,230 got us everything from religion to 1026 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:55,190 alternative medicine technology I think 1027 00:38:57,489 --> 00:38:56,450 there's a really really broad range 1028 00:38:59,950 --> 00:38:57,499 which is good because it gives us lots 1029 00:39:01,839 --> 00:38:59,960 of lots of options so I think it's 1030 00:39:03,039 --> 00:39:01,849 really great and stuff I haven't heard 1031 00:39:05,410 --> 00:39:03,049 before as well because you know 1032 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:05,420 sometimes at the conventions and 1033 00:39:08,289 --> 00:39:06,650 conferences you know we do get a little 1034 00:39:10,579 --> 00:39:08,299 bit same same after a while so it's nice 1035 00:39:13,670 --> 00:39:10,589 to hear really interesting new topics 1036 00:39:15,469 --> 00:39:13,680 oh dear had a lovely chat with Joe there 1037 00:39:17,150 --> 00:39:15,479 she was a warm and knowledgeable as 1038 00:39:20,390 --> 00:39:17,160 usual but now it's back to dr. ray chief 1039 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:20,400 oh thanks man I I I applauded during 1040 00:39:23,900 --> 00:39:22,410 your talk oh you did to look thank you 1041 00:39:25,430 --> 00:39:23,910 for being in the room there now do you 1042 00:39:26,809 --> 00:39:25,440 think I gave enough props to the effort 1043 00:39:30,170 --> 00:39:26,819 that you and Richard made on leader to 1044 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:30,180 disbelieve your show oh yes but the 1045 00:39:34,039 --> 00:39:31,729 truck was amiss me about that anyways 1046 00:39:35,809 --> 00:39:34,049 but I thought was interesting to bring 1047 00:39:37,819 --> 00:39:35,819 up that another way to go with the show 1048 00:39:39,289 --> 00:39:37,829 would be to push you guys as presenter 1049 00:39:40,700 --> 00:39:39,299 and just get out of the way and then 1050 00:39:41,839 --> 00:39:40,710 that sometimes creatively that's what 1051 00:39:45,769 --> 00:39:41,849 you might have to do to get a show on 1052 00:39:48,109 --> 00:39:45,779 yeah but you said that you haven't had 1053 00:39:51,380 --> 00:39:48,119 any success no matter what you've tried 1054 00:39:52,700 --> 00:39:51,390 to do right mmm so I think I mean 1055 00:39:54,469 --> 00:39:52,710 basically what made us talk was about 1056 00:39:57,259 --> 00:39:54,479 was getting into how to not get a show 1057 00:39:58,940 --> 00:39:57,269 on the ABC and that you've been in this 1058 00:40:00,469 --> 00:39:58,950 current job of the everything for 11 1059 00:40:03,019 --> 00:40:00,479 years and you still can't get a show on 1060 00:40:05,839 --> 00:40:03,029 the ABC and perhaps maybe what we need 1061 00:40:07,700 --> 00:40:05,849 to do is read the menu maybe because 1062 00:40:09,469 --> 00:40:07,710 actually I was interested because you 1063 00:40:13,099 --> 00:40:09,479 were talking about how part of the 1064 00:40:14,450 --> 00:40:13,109 criticism has been its to produced some 1065 00:40:16,489 --> 00:40:14,460 people were a hundred percent chirag to 1066 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:16,499 what that meant it's quite hard to 1067 00:40:21,499 --> 00:40:19,170 describe because it paces part of it 1068 00:40:23,509 --> 00:40:21,509 it's edited to be quick but it's also 1069 00:40:25,670 --> 00:40:23,519 got to do with the noises and themes 1070 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:25,680 involved and that is a style of radio 1071 00:40:28,819 --> 00:40:27,690 that um you just don't get a lot of you 1072 00:40:30,109 --> 00:40:28,829 get it on commercial radio on 1073 00:40:31,759 --> 00:40:30,119 commercials and their sweepers and 1074 00:40:33,739 --> 00:40:31,769 things but you don't really get that as 1075 00:40:36,140 --> 00:40:33,749 much anymore and I just think it's 1076 00:40:37,759 --> 00:40:36,150 because it's it takes time to do well 1077 00:40:39,829 --> 00:40:37,769 it's sort of when you were trying to 1078 00:40:42,019 --> 00:40:39,839 explain that it just reminded me of 1079 00:40:44,180 --> 00:40:42,029 saying stock Aitken and Waterman from 1080 00:40:46,249 --> 00:40:44,190 the 80s when they did Kylie and melon 1081 00:40:47,660 --> 00:40:46,259 Kim and that there they were always 1082 00:40:50,209 --> 00:40:47,670 criticized for being over produced 1083 00:40:52,370 --> 00:40:50,219 because I was shiny and so maybe that's 1084 00:40:54,079 --> 00:40:52,380 what and someone brought up the issue 1085 00:40:56,029 --> 00:40:54,089 that you don't talk to the equipment 1086 00:40:59,269 --> 00:40:56,039 enough look at no point do you say oh 1087 00:41:00,799 --> 00:40:59,279 that's the wrong sting and all I can't 1088 00:41:02,420 --> 00:41:00,809 find that person on the phone line will 1089 00:41:04,609 --> 00:41:02,430 have to call them back that's the sort 1090 00:41:06,589 --> 00:41:04,619 of stuff that ABC radio is you know 1091 00:41:07,519 --> 00:41:06,599 often has happened so I think maybe the 1092 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:07,529 problem is we don't have enough mistakes 1093 00:41:11,420 --> 00:41:09,930 in the show Maynard we get crank mail I 1094 00:41:12,979 --> 00:41:11,430 mean goodness me we get people riding in 1095 00:41:14,839 --> 00:41:12,989 telling as well will we get how many 1096 00:41:16,579 --> 00:41:14,849 other shows has a regular denouncement 1097 00:41:18,769 --> 00:41:16,589 segment where we get denounced from what 1098 00:41:20,749 --> 00:41:18,779 we did the week before but some of our 1099 00:41:22,779 --> 00:41:20,759 crank mail is simply things like is 1100 00:41:25,539 --> 00:41:22,789 pavlova a cake 1101 00:41:27,159 --> 00:41:25,549 no particular criticism is it and do all 1102 00:41:30,099 --> 00:41:27,169 men look bad just wearing undies and 1103 00:41:31,959 --> 00:41:30,109 socks and our tights pants yeah which 1104 00:41:33,489 --> 00:41:31,969 has been one that next to Nazi UFOs 1105 00:41:35,829 --> 00:41:33,499 that's been our hottest topic missing 1106 00:41:37,809 --> 00:41:35,839 really well it's you know it's an issue 1107 00:41:39,759 --> 00:41:37,819 that's been um fought amongst people for 1108 00:41:40,989 --> 00:41:39,769 a very long time and in fact I saw 1109 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:40,999 something the other day that just said 1110 00:41:45,390 --> 00:41:42,890 tights are not pants do unto others 1111 00:41:47,289 --> 00:41:45,400 which i think is a very pertinent 1112 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:47,299 statement well we're certainly doing 1113 00:41:50,409 --> 00:41:49,249 unto others here today at skipped you 1114 00:41:52,179 --> 00:41:50,419 can't what do you think visit there's 1115 00:41:54,429 --> 00:41:52,189 anything is there been a theme running 1116 00:41:56,650 --> 00:41:54,439 through is is there anything in anyone's 1117 00:41:59,019 --> 00:41:56,660 collective bonnet this time around well 1118 00:42:01,569 --> 00:41:59,029 it's um Dave a happy singer kicked off 1119 00:42:05,769 --> 00:42:01,579 this morning by saying that some people 1120 00:42:08,349 --> 00:42:05,779 are criticized first skeptics were being 1121 00:42:10,479 --> 00:42:08,359 dicks and you shouldn't be dicks to 1122 00:42:12,849 --> 00:42:10,489 people because they can sometimes 1123 00:42:14,979 --> 00:42:12,859 alienate believers but I believe that I 1124 00:42:17,589 --> 00:42:14,989 was a dick today may not I have to put 1125 00:42:18,789 --> 00:42:17,599 up my hand and say that um we had a talk 1126 00:42:20,829 --> 00:42:18,799 where someone was talking about 1127 00:42:22,539 --> 00:42:20,839 alternative medicine and cancer and I 1128 00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:22,549 got a little bit cranky and I maybe said 1129 00:42:27,189 --> 00:42:25,609 the word [\h__\h] now is this because it 1130 00:42:29,499 --> 00:42:27,199 fires you up because that's feel that 1131 00:42:31,179 --> 00:42:29,509 you sort of work in or because it's a 1132 00:42:33,669 --> 00:42:31,189 field that you see is potentially 1133 00:42:36,699 --> 00:42:33,679 harmful yeah I mean I rarely see you as 1134 00:42:39,309 --> 00:42:36,709 outspoken as that well I do that at my 1135 00:42:42,159 --> 00:42:39,319 body wallet occasionally i know u bar 1136 00:42:43,390 --> 00:42:42,169 right up and the the episode where we 1137 00:42:45,729 --> 00:42:43,400 that's part the problem i'm having 1138 00:42:47,709 --> 00:42:45,739 editing that or possible ABC broadcast 1139 00:42:49,689 --> 00:42:47,719 is because of the stuff I've got illegal 1140 00:42:51,519 --> 00:42:49,699 the entire episode edit out all the 1141 00:42:53,109 --> 00:42:51,529 stuff where you talk to me it's the same 1142 00:42:55,539 --> 00:42:53,119 as with the zone episode all that there 1143 00:42:57,279 --> 00:42:55,549 is in that with of me as me eating 1144 00:42:59,769 --> 00:42:57,289 that's about hitch the rich service cook 1145 00:43:02,799 --> 00:42:59,779 on the cutting room floor no I don't 1146 00:43:05,349 --> 00:43:02,809 work in cancer myself but I'm the the 1147 00:43:07,059 --> 00:43:05,359 talk that was given was citing specific 1148 00:43:08,289 --> 00:43:07,069 references and when I just did a cursory 1149 00:43:12,219 --> 00:43:08,299 google i found they were completely 1150 00:43:13,749 --> 00:43:12,229 wrong and I think read readers who's the 1151 00:43:16,689 --> 00:43:13,759 guy who sort of setup skipped account 1152 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:16,699 the idea was to come here in a forum 1153 00:43:20,620 --> 00:43:19,130 where you can talk about whatever you 1154 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:20,630 like but you should be able to back up 1155 00:43:24,759 --> 00:43:22,130 what you say and you should have 1156 00:43:26,919 --> 00:43:24,769 references to back up what you say so I 1157 00:43:28,089 --> 00:43:26,929 can't you can't really expect to walk in 1158 00:43:30,189 --> 00:43:28,099 here and cite a whole lot of nonsense 1159 00:43:32,769 --> 00:43:30,199 and just have everyone except it and so 1160 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:32,779 myself enjoy Nurse Joy did have a little 1161 00:43:37,030 --> 00:43:33,770 bit of a few 1162 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:37,040 words to say about that yeah yeah I 1163 00:43:40,930 --> 00:43:39,050 thought fill the use of the word Balder 1164 00:43:43,630 --> 00:43:40,940 dash was so I haven't heard that one for 1165 00:43:46,090 --> 00:43:43,640 a long time yes there may be an a swear 1166 00:43:47,650 --> 00:43:46,100 word and and i said that i was there at 1167 00:43:49,060 --> 00:43:47,660 the most controversial moment of skeptic 1168 00:43:51,850 --> 00:43:49,070 app it's all downhill from here really 1169 00:43:53,170 --> 00:43:51,860 well apparently we can think the thing 1170 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:53,180 is you stood up during my talk and do 1171 00:43:55,870 --> 00:43:54,410 the same thing and I wasn't even talking 1172 00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:55,880 about medicine yeah we'll see that's the 1173 00:44:02,380 --> 00:43:57,170 thing manner and I'm just being a dick 1174 00:44:04,900 --> 00:44:02,390 today I don't care who's speaking who 1175 00:44:06,850 --> 00:44:04,910 are you and what are you doing here well 1176 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:06,860 my name is Anna and I'm here it's a 1177 00:44:10,690 --> 00:44:08,570 skeptic em to listen to some very 1178 00:44:12,970 --> 00:44:10,700 interesting talks and I've just had a 1179 00:44:15,940 --> 00:44:12,980 very interesting conversation about 1180 00:44:17,820 --> 00:44:15,950 publishing in academia I think we just 1181 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:17,830 came up with some really good ideas and 1182 00:44:23,140 --> 00:44:20,810 how publishing could be changing over 1183 00:44:25,380 --> 00:44:23,150 the next maybe like 10 or 20 years this 1184 00:44:29,980 --> 00:44:25,390 is a change to the peer review process 1185 00:44:31,630 --> 00:44:29,990 well it's more about that publishing 1186 00:44:34,180 --> 00:44:31,640 right now is all behind a paywall in 1187 00:44:37,780 --> 00:44:34,190 academia so you publish something you 1188 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:37,790 write an article and the authors pay to 1189 00:44:42,340 --> 00:44:40,970 read that article in The Reader's paid 1190 00:44:43,930 --> 00:44:42,350 to read that articles and the authors 1191 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:43,940 don't even get paid for that dinner and 1192 00:44:50,110 --> 00:44:46,370 it would be great if all these articles 1193 00:44:51,850 --> 00:44:50,120 were online for free and everyone could 1194 00:44:53,650 --> 00:44:51,860 read them everyone could make their 1195 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:53,660 notes and the notes would be all online 1196 00:44:58,510 --> 00:44:55,970 so let's say you read an article online 1197 00:44:59,950 --> 00:44:58,520 and do you think well this is this 1198 00:45:01,780 --> 00:44:59,960 sounds a bit rubbish but I'm not quite 1199 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:01,790 sure let's see what other people think 1200 00:45:05,350 --> 00:45:03,530 about and then you would click inside 1201 00:45:07,540 --> 00:45:05,360 the article if it's like a PDF or HTML 1202 00:45:09,580 --> 00:45:07,550 whatever and you would see okay this 1203 00:45:11,740 --> 00:45:09,590 professor things this article is rubbish 1204 00:45:13,540 --> 00:45:11,750 as well maybe maybe it is actually not 1205 00:45:17,170 --> 00:45:13,550 quite that good and I think this would 1206 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:17,180 save a lot of time in publishing in well 1207 00:45:21,700 --> 00:45:20,330 in in air in all fields of academia you 1208 00:45:23,890 --> 00:45:21,710 know like you published something read 1209 00:45:25,660 --> 00:45:23,900 and I read so many papers at my work and 1210 00:45:28,300 --> 00:45:25,670 I think well some of them are good some 1211 00:45:30,250 --> 00:45:28,310 not so good but I don't have you know 1212 00:45:31,720 --> 00:45:30,260 the input of all these other people who 1213 00:45:32,780 --> 00:45:31,730 have pretty sure that read this article 1214 00:45:34,370 --> 00:45:32,790 and 1215 00:45:36,350 --> 00:45:34,380 I think that would be really interesting 1216 00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:36,360 but it sounds good i'm just worried 1217 00:45:39,590 --> 00:45:38,250 sometimes the wisdom of the crowd isn't 1218 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:39,600 always a good thing but i guess the 1219 00:45:42,170 --> 00:45:40,530 people that are reading this were the 1220 00:45:44,210 --> 00:45:42,180 people that are qualified out there yeah 1221 00:45:46,070 --> 00:45:44,220 let's say um you know of course you give 1222 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:46,080 someone who has experience in a field 1223 00:45:49,730 --> 00:45:48,210 more credit so you know if someone 1224 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:49,740 already commented you know he is a 1225 00:45:55,010 --> 00:45:51,570 professor or he has published previously 1226 00:45:57,890 --> 00:45:55,020 in this you know feel you can weigh it 1227 00:45:59,420 --> 00:45:57,900 higher I'm sure I'm not an IT I'm not a 1228 00:46:01,160 --> 00:45:59,430 software engineer but I'm sure there are 1229 00:46:03,470 --> 00:46:01,170 you know methods out there to make this 1230 00:46:05,270 --> 00:46:03,480 all more accessible and what is your 1231 00:46:06,830 --> 00:46:05,280 area of study well i'm doing a PhD in 1232 00:46:09,860 --> 00:46:06,840 chemical engineering and i'm 1233 00:46:11,870 --> 00:46:09,870 investigating co2 solvents i'm basically 1234 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:11,880 to suck up co2 from a flue gas stream 1235 00:46:17,510 --> 00:46:16,410 and better save it ah how promising of 1236 00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:17,520 that development they've got where they 1237 00:46:21,530 --> 00:46:19,440 talk about electronic trees that turn 1238 00:46:24,590 --> 00:46:21,540 the co2 into some sort of starch is that 1239 00:46:28,670 --> 00:46:24,600 actually a reality I haven't heard about 1240 00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:28,680 that so Wow yeah yeah of some person 1241 00:46:33,950 --> 00:46:31,050 running tree will you get some sort of 1242 00:46:36,140 --> 00:46:33,960 process where there's a solvent and by 1243 00:46:37,700 --> 00:46:36,150 air coming in contact with it the co2 is 1244 00:46:40,730 --> 00:46:37,710 taken out of it and turned into a starch 1245 00:46:42,260 --> 00:46:40,740 a little bit like trees do oh well I 1246 00:46:44,540 --> 00:46:42,270 mean that's like one maybe I've just 1247 00:46:47,330 --> 00:46:44,550 been reading too many philip k dick it's 1248 00:46:49,490 --> 00:46:47,340 it's probably one type of co2 mitigation 1249 00:46:51,260 --> 00:46:49,500 so I mean what you can do to battle 1250 00:46:53,150 --> 00:46:51,270 climate change is not planned a lot of 1251 00:46:54,980 --> 00:46:53,160 real trees you know not electronic trees 1252 00:46:58,250 --> 00:46:54,990 and they suck up the co2 and you have 1253 00:46:59,960 --> 00:46:58,260 wood right so you can do that that's one 1254 00:47:01,790 --> 00:46:59,970 of the mitigation strategies but I don't 1255 00:47:03,140 --> 00:47:01,800 know about this one electronic I could 1256 00:47:04,910 --> 00:47:03,150 have just dreamt it and woke up thought 1257 00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:04,920 it was real think it was real that that 1258 00:47:08,330 --> 00:47:06,480 could have happened to so you think in 1259 00:47:09,980 --> 00:47:08,340 this particular area this sort of a new 1260 00:47:12,950 --> 00:47:09,990 process will be very handful handy for 1261 00:47:15,500 --> 00:47:12,960 chemical engineering oh yeah I guess so 1262 00:47:16,550 --> 00:47:15,510 yeah hmm and what are you looking 1263 00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:16,560 forward to this afternoon is they were 1264 00:47:19,610 --> 00:47:17,520 talk you going to be going to this 1265 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:19,620 afternoon I'm sure there will be but I 1266 00:47:23,750 --> 00:47:22,650 actually haven't looked at the email to 1267 00:47:25,010 --> 00:47:23,760 sign I don't know what's on this 1268 00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:25,020 afternoon okay well of course they've 1269 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:26,730 got the fairly controversial cupcake 1270 00:47:31,130 --> 00:47:28,410 camp coming up shortly where we judge 1271 00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:31,140 the cupcakes are you I would totally on 1272 00:47:38,510 --> 00:47:36,690 that yeah well you can hear a huge 1273 00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:38,520 gnashing of teeth you can hear the fight 1274 00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:40,530 of hair being pulled of people giving 1275 00:47:44,990 --> 00:47:42,690 each other severe wedgies punching 1276 00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:45,000 Chinese arm burns basically every kind 1277 00:47:49,370 --> 00:47:46,650 of violence has broken out because it's 1278 00:47:51,650 --> 00:47:49,380 cupcake gap the most controversial time 1279 00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:51,660 of skeptic am yes it's serious business 1280 00:47:56,450 --> 00:47:54,570 here yes now last year there was some 1281 00:47:59,180 --> 00:47:56,460 controversial cambron entries what do we 1282 00:48:01,430 --> 00:47:59,190 got this year well we do have a return 1283 00:48:03,170 --> 00:48:01,440 of the runner-up from last year from 1284 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:03,180 Canberra let's get in a bit closer so we 1285 00:48:06,410 --> 00:48:04,410 can have a look at this i'm having a 1286 00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:06,420 look now these that's looking a bit so 1287 00:48:12,860 --> 00:48:10,650 soufflé like yeah this is actually one 1288 00:48:16,250 --> 00:48:12,870 of Ruth's creations and this is 1289 00:48:18,350 --> 00:48:16,260 gluten-free and friendly for all oh okay 1290 00:48:20,150 --> 00:48:18,360 well look that's not bad idea although 1291 00:48:21,380 --> 00:48:20,160 does that mean do they say that cuz it 1292 00:48:22,670 --> 00:48:21,390 doesn't taste any good often people say 1293 00:48:24,470 --> 00:48:22,680 it's good for you it doesn't taste me 1294 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:24,480 good oh I should start doing that for my 1295 00:48:28,670 --> 00:48:27,210 cupcakes yes I guess yes sure and now 1296 00:48:31,580 --> 00:48:28,680 look know what do you got here look at 1297 00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:31,590 this these are esters rocky road wow 1298 00:48:36,230 --> 00:48:34,050 they're not strictly cupcakes but they 1299 00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:36,240 look delicious anyway now what are 1300 00:48:39,530 --> 00:48:37,650 people voting on it obviously voting on 1301 00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:39,540 taste but I've got to say visual appeal 1302 00:48:42,590 --> 00:48:41,040 is a big thing and with the cupcake you 1303 00:48:46,100 --> 00:48:42,600 can go to town with the colors like this 1304 00:48:48,770 --> 00:48:46,110 person has high right yeah yeah well I 1305 00:48:51,410 --> 00:48:48,780 think that um there was actually a study 1306 00:48:52,590 --> 00:48:51,420 done where you can confuse people with 1307 00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:52,600 taste and color 1308 00:48:58,800 --> 00:48:56,050 no sir yeah sushi make food blue it 1309 00:49:00,450 --> 00:48:58,810 confuses people really and people don't 1310 00:49:02,460 --> 00:49:00,460 tend to like brown food because actually 1311 00:49:03,990 --> 00:49:02,470 tomato juice naturally is brown they 1312 00:49:05,910 --> 00:49:04,000 actually have to add red color to get it 1313 00:49:08,370 --> 00:49:05,920 too because people weren't drink a brown 1314 00:49:10,110 --> 00:49:08,380 liquid easily okay and when you think 1315 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:10,120 about it tomatoes are red so expecting 1316 00:49:15,150 --> 00:49:13,450 it to be rare and when it oxidizes it 1317 00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:15,160 goes brown yeah and I notice there's no 1318 00:49:19,770 --> 00:49:17,130 tomato juice based cupcakes here 1319 00:49:21,690 --> 00:49:19,780 thankfully Nora oh and what do we got 1320 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:21,700 here now let's not let me tell you it 1321 00:49:25,290 --> 00:49:23,410 looks like someone has done a bit of 1322 00:49:28,020 --> 00:49:25,300 pretzel work in the middle of a 1323 00:49:32,030 --> 00:49:28,030 chocolate chip nothing this isn't 1324 00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:32,040 apparently its pretzel chocolate ganache 1325 00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:35,440 and I am really thankful to the person 1326 00:49:39,660 --> 00:49:37,330 who made them just because it gives me 1327 00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:39,670 an excuse to take a nap yeah get Nash 1328 00:49:44,100 --> 00:49:41,650 normally it's something you'd use it as 1329 00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:44,110 an insult well that's right but they 1330 00:49:47,940 --> 00:49:45,610 look delicious that is really good now 1331 00:49:49,290 --> 00:49:47,950 can you actually say what the favorite 1332 00:49:53,340 --> 00:49:49,300 is or because of your close involvement 1333 00:49:55,890 --> 00:49:53,350 with this well see I've got I've got an 1334 00:49:57,570 --> 00:49:55,900 entry in here so really you know okay 1335 00:50:00,150 --> 00:49:57,580 fair enough ya know which is your one 1336 00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:00,160 again ah the colorful confusing ones ah 1337 00:50:04,140 --> 00:50:02,410 well thats i guess i thought you have 1338 00:50:05,820 --> 00:50:04,150 gone so you've done done the skeptic 1339 00:50:07,530 --> 00:50:05,830 scientific thing you've done your color 1340 00:50:09,990 --> 00:50:07,540 study and you worked out what colors are 1341 00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:10,000 good well actually I'm just wondering to 1342 00:50:14,250 --> 00:50:11,890 see if people will think that the green 1343 00:50:17,820 --> 00:50:14,260 icing looks different from the vanilla 1344 00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:17,830 icing Zack same flavor and what 1345 00:50:22,380 --> 00:50:19,810 surprised by the way the winner of 1346 00:50:25,110 --> 00:50:22,390 Cupcake camp gets what the rights to use 1347 00:50:26,820 --> 00:50:25,120 ganache in a sentence oh I think that 1348 00:50:28,770 --> 00:50:26,830 everyone should have the right to use 1349 00:50:33,140 --> 00:50:28,780 ganache in a sentence it's a basic human 1350 00:50:36,930 --> 00:50:33,150 right yeah it's inalienable inalienable 1351 00:50:40,590 --> 00:50:36,940 but today first prize is actually Lois 1352 00:50:42,780 --> 00:50:40,600 worthington and you can do what you like 1353 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:42,790 with him for a night which sounds scary 1354 00:50:46,310 --> 00:50:44,130 but 1355 00:50:48,470 --> 00:50:46,320 well doesn't that normally just what 1356 00:50:50,570 --> 00:50:48,480 mean what you love a psychic TV oh I 1357 00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:50,580 hope so that sounds cool okay I'll let 1358 00:50:55,010 --> 00:50:53,310 you get back to it breaking news 1359 00:50:56,270 --> 00:50:55,020 breakingnews I'm with the person who was 1360 00:50:58,550 --> 00:50:56,280 one of the controversial interest in 1361 00:51:00,740 --> 00:50:58,560 cupcake camp last year and you're back 1362 00:51:02,570 --> 00:51:00,750 again doing some sort of scientific 1363 00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:02,580 trickery to make people get them there's 1364 00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:03,810 a bit of there's a shiny thing on top 1365 00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:05,280 that's right that's right it's a whole 1366 00:51:09,500 --> 00:51:07,650 caramel decoration you are on a strong 1367 00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:09,510 competition from the ganache yes I do 1368 00:51:13,970 --> 00:51:11,490 notice that also the saltiness is sweet 1369 00:51:16,100 --> 00:51:13,980 as a chocolate of that side hmm now you 1370 00:51:17,690 --> 00:51:16,110 haven't gone for a big color here I will 1371 00:51:19,100 --> 00:51:17,700 you there's look range of colors in the 1372 00:51:21,380 --> 00:51:19,110 more traditional way over there you've 1373 00:51:24,650 --> 00:51:21,390 gone with with this this thing about me 1374 00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:24,660 my salted caramels fired by the fsm the 1375 00:51:29,510 --> 00:51:26,370 river has it that there's a little 1376 00:51:32,210 --> 00:51:29,520 surprise on the inside wow it sounds 1377 00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:32,220 like the last date i went on well I 1378 00:51:36,290 --> 00:51:33,570 better eat it and find out and good luck 1379 00:51:54,940 --> 00:51:36,300 and and are you going for the prize you 1380 00:51:59,450 --> 00:51:57,620 hello I'm Finn I am co-host of the 1381 00:52:01,850 --> 00:51:59,460 skipper corns podcast podcast from 1382 00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:01,860 Dublin Ireland we look at things of a 1383 00:52:07,070 --> 00:52:03,450 skeptical nature from an Irish point of 1384 00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:07,080 view you can find us on WWF for coins 1385 00:52:15,410 --> 00:52:13,370 com that's sk EP or e CH a un des calm 1386 00:52:16,730 --> 00:52:15,420 please listen to us and give us some 1387 00:52:30,330 --> 00:52:16,740 feedback we love hearing from our 1388 00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:32,650 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1389 00:52:38,530 --> 00:52:35,330 zone in the coming weeks for interviews 1390 00:52:42,250 --> 00:52:38,540 and snippets from skeptic app including 1391 00:52:44,740 --> 00:52:42,260 an interview with Tim mendham the editor 1392 00:52:47,770 --> 00:52:44,750 of the skeptic magazine here in 1393 00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:47,780 Australia now tim has been involved in 1394 00:52:52,540 --> 00:52:50,570 skepticism in australia since the very 1395 00:52:55,510 --> 00:52:52,550 beginning way back in about nineteen 1396 00:52:58,840 --> 00:52:55,520 eighty nineteen eighty one that's coming 1397 00:53:00,370 --> 00:52:58,850 up probably next week a big thank you to 1398 00:53:03,310 --> 00:53:00,380 Maine out of course for doing all that 1399 00:53:06,460 --> 00:53:03,320 hard work at skeptic camp that's just a 1400 00:53:09,940 --> 00:53:06,470 taste folks it's just a taste of what is 1401 00:53:11,890 --> 00:53:09,950 coming when Maynard travels to Tam in 1402 00:53:13,210 --> 00:53:11,900 Las Vegas running around with his 1403 00:53:15,460 --> 00:53:13,220 microphone for three or four days 1404 00:53:17,890 --> 00:53:15,470 talking to people and if you're coming 1405 00:53:20,770 --> 00:53:17,900 to town in Las Vegas make sure you find 1406 00:53:23,950 --> 00:53:20,780 Maynard and say Maynard interview me and 1407 00:53:26,620 --> 00:53:23,960 I'm sure he will now on my way to 1408 00:53:29,470 --> 00:53:26,630 skeptic camp which was yesterday as i'm 1409 00:53:31,780 --> 00:53:29,480 recording this i was on the bus and i 1410 00:53:33,730 --> 00:53:31,790 was listening to the latest oh no Ross 1411 00:53:36,010 --> 00:53:33,740 and Carrie podcast which I advertised 1412 00:53:38,410 --> 00:53:36,020 from time to time and their adventures 1413 00:53:40,900 --> 00:53:38,420 with the Raelians the UFO people ah 1414 00:53:42,670 --> 00:53:40,910 that's a funny episode I could recommend 1415 00:53:45,580 --> 00:53:42,680 that one well done Ross and Carrie and I 1416 00:53:47,710 --> 00:53:45,590 hope to see you in Las Vegas as well 1417 00:53:48,750 --> 00:53:47,720 anyway I'm sure we're looking forward to 1418 00:53:53,710 --> 00:53:48,760 that we're looking forward to our 1419 00:53:55,810 --> 00:53:53,720 skeptic camp again in 2013 I it was a 1420 00:53:58,690 --> 00:53:55,820 really great day in congratulations to 1421 00:54:01,030 --> 00:53:58,700 the organizers fantastic time but for 1422 00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:01,040 now but for this week this is Richard 1423 00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:03,290 Saunders signing off from Sydney 1424 00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:09,290 Australia you've been listening to the 1425 00:54:18,850 --> 00:54:10,970 skeptic zone